Pressure games. He seems to lose his shit and / or be unable to coach his team adequately to win them.
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Pressure games. He seems to lose his shit and / or be unable to coach his team adequately to win them.
What do we put last season's results vs. Top 6 down to then ?
I dunno. But I see a pattern emerging.
So again, how does his previously exceptionally good record against the top teams fit in with that? You can make the argument about finals but you're weakening that argument by insisting on linking it to his record against top teams.
We got beat in an easy cup tie against West Brom. He gets beat in finals. All of our rivals have had good results against us this season. There's clearly some weakness there. Maybe last year was the blip. I dunno. But if I was him that's what would be keeping me up at night.
And it's not even the 'Mourinho Factor' because even including today Klopp's record is W3 D4 L2 vs. that bitter twat.
The half year before as well was a blip? Just focus on finals and your argument's strong. This is just undermining your point. Stop digging.
Other than the tactical details and individual mistakes, let’s talk about attitude - our players arrived at Old Trafford as almost favorites in most neutrals minds, everybody could feel we’re in a better form than United and had we played with the same energy and passion as usual, their defenders had plenty of reasons to fear us. Instead, from the very first few touches of the ball you could see our players being timid and unsure. Klopp was standing on the touchline with a look that said “I don’t recognize my team” from the very first minute. We lost it mentally before we lost it tactically.
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I think today was more about the Lovren factor than the Maureen factor but to say Maureen didn't out-think Klopp today is disingenuous.
I can't remember that far back. We've got a habit of doing shit in pressure games lately. It's not digging, it's fact.
What's not fact and is what I'm proposing is that Klopp, by being as emotionally charged as he is, brings his nervousness into the dressing room before these games, and if so he needs to chill.
Yeah, that.
I know, but can't stop.
Yep - but seriously there was fault on our side - against Jose - unless his team has been losing and he is in his 3rd season dip - you just play a tactical defensive setup. With Jose - its all about the finer details - this game had the feel of THAT 'slip' game when he was at Chelsea, but without the ramifications of losing a title. We did well in the 2nd half and they had three very good chances from which they scored twice. We had chances but our players made wrong decisions - sometimes they were in a better position to take a strong shot than to pass. There was too much dilly-dallying around their box when we could have broken through.
What I did enjoy though was watching their crowd shit themselves as we lined up corner after corner, and passing around very close to their box - you could feel the anxiety - it was great to finally see them shit themselves. if we face them again this season - I don't think we will be making the same errors again - TRUST ME.
Out thought him ? He played the way everyone and their dog had forecast prematch ! If he out thought Klopp then Klopp was the only one in the whole of England that hadn't figured out how exactly how he'd play .... I even named the exact team (bar Rashford for Lingard) and formation in the prematch thread. There was no genius involved.
Everyone expected Sanchez on the left though
Rashford being there was THE reason they scored 2 goals
So you think their starting 11 was better than ours and the loss was inevitable?
No they didn't. And that's not where I had him either for a very good reason. Sanchez has played in one position in every single match since he's arrived at United. You'll notice how I've mentioned this numerous times as the reason Sanchez is underperforming. Prematch I couldn't decide if Mourinho would play Rashford or Lingard left.
Because that's exactly what I said isn't it
Because that's exactly what I said isn't it
I asked a question. I don't understand your logic is all.
OK let's turn this round then. I said everyone knew what Mourinho was going to do and that's exactly what he did (team, tactics and formation). Virtually a Carbon Copy of Anfield earlier this season. You said he outthought Klopp, please explain how you came to that conclusion. Thanks.
BTW here is my post in the prematch thread. Team (bar 1), formation and tactics.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/man-united-pre-match.116213/page-7#post-1678073
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/man-united-pre-match.116213/page-7#post-1678073
Is anyone arguing that United AREN'T a good side?
I feel like I'm stuck between two arguments and agree with some bits and disagree with others.
The idea that we'd waltz into Old Trafford and brush United aside is fanciful even when they're not in a strong period, or playing under Moyes or LVG.
So I don't think it's that weird that we went away from home to a team that was ABOVE US IN THE TABLE and managed by Mourinho, and lost.
I feel like I'm stuck between two arguments and agree with some bits and disagree with others.
The idea that we'd waltz into Old Trafford and brush United aside is fanciful even when they're not in a strong period, or playing under Moyes or LVG.
So I don't think it's that weird that we went away from home to a team that was ABOVE US IN THE TABLE and managed by Mourinho, and lost.
Why turn it round? Why not just answer the question? If everyone knew how he was going to play and the formation and everything there are only two possible answers. First is we had a worse team out in front of them, second is that Klopp failed tactically. Is there another?
To answer your question, I think he out-thought Klopp because he won with a worse team than us, and he knew he'd find space when we were attacking.
Of course there is another. There are about 3 or 4 more !
a) Players making individual mistakes often has little or nothing to do with which is the better team.
b) Luck has nothing to do with anything except luck.
c) Refereeing decisions can make or break any match (and certainly not one or two but many influenced this one, including 3 possible penalty calls, two of which even G.Neville thought should have been given). If Valencia hadn't have handled would Firmino have scored ? Very possibly. What about Salah ? Clearly held back and denied an obvious shooting opportunity. I actually don't think the other Mane incident was a penalty but others do.
It's tough to blame players for not living up to their potential when they are fouled, and the officials do nothing, and thereby denied those very opportunities to make a difference, in a match which was never going to offer up many.
It's very easy to blame the manager but I don't see that much blame can be put on him at all other than maybe personnel-wise say Matip for Lovren or Gomez for AA but those would have been very contentious in and unto themselves. Players made mistakes but tactically there was no issue really, it wasn't tactics that cost us the match so Klopp wasn't out-thought by Mourinho in any shape or form.
Well... If the choice is between Lovren and Matip and you've had five transfer windows to sort it, then it's kinda on you. If their keeper doesn't have to make a meaningful save then you've set the team up wrong. Yeah we coulda had some pens or luck or whatever, but it's not like we put them under loads of pressure.
We had about 100 corners. They scored from two of them. Two of our corners. Utter naivety.
We had about 100 corners. They scored from two of them. Two of our corners. Utter naivety.
Not loads of pressure ? Seriously ? However again it comes back to officials failing to do their job ... whether it was fouls inside or outside the box we drew the very short straw.
I'm not saying we deserved to win (based on our first half performance clearly not) but I am saying United didn't deserve to either. In the end our tactics had little to do with it, a team playing as deep as United doesn't give you many options, some of our players made errors of judgement in attack and two made defensive errors, compounded by two unfortunate deflections for one goal ... and that was the difference (that and the officials) between winning, drawing and losing. It's not like we were comprehensively outplayed and definitely not out thought.
The thing is after they scored two they figured they’d had enough. You can’t say we played great in the second half, they let us have the ball. We did fuck all with it just as they expected.
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