6 Nations 2011
- Thread starter Rosco
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I actually couldn't have found a better example:
'It takes two hours to get ready. Hot bath, shave my legs and face, moisturise, put fake tan on and do my hair – which takes a bit of time." It could be your missus getting ready to go on a big night out but no, read on.
"I need my fellow players to say I'm looking good, I need it for my confidence. It gives you a boost. I don't want Charlotte to do my legs; she can concentrate on her own. Mine are smoother than hers."
March 2006: Friday night with Jonathan Ross – Gavin Henson has his 15 minutes of fame. Ross has his researchers do all the work and even though Henson is a rugby international, Ross goes to work on his Derek Zoolander alter ego. The two hours that Henson refers to are the two hours he takes to get ready to go off and play a rugby match. He is not talking about a social engagement. Ross, sensing a bit of weakness, starts to goad Henson but stops, as he belatedly realises that Henson is completely defenceless – it was like clubbing a baby seal. The interview collapsed as Ross realised that Henson was as vacuous an empty vessel as he had ever interviewed. There was no connect between interviewer and interviewee. Despite being feted as a media celebrity Henson has all the charisma of a coffin lid and it would be unfair to slag him.
Henson's model is a precursor and a disquieting precedent for the celebrity rugby player. We currently have two in the northern hemisphere – Henson and Danny Cipriani. They are good friends and that is not a coincidence. They, like quite a number of talented sportsmen, have this self-destructive genome in their DNA which leads to unfulfilled potential, distracted agendas and depressive mentality which is precipitated by early retirement and disillusion. Both of them are well on their ways down this path. It is plausible to suggest that we will not see either of them play a serious game of rugby union again. The question we have to ask is whether the disappearance of this Jedwarding pair is good or bad for the game.
Putative logic tells us that Henson is a quality player. I can't say that I agree with that. It's true that he played a part in Wales' two recent Grand Slams. He also played a large part in Ireland's recent Grand Slam. His playing qualities are obvious. He has a booming boot, he's a quality place kicker, he has good hands, he is good defensively and, despite a lazy gliding style of running, is deceptively quick. Yet there is something missing. How is it that you can have style without substance?
Never really a team player, he is more a self-contained unit within the team. When he famously took the ball from Gareth Thomas at the end of the Grand Slam game in Cardiff in 2005 and said, "Give me the ball and start celebrating", the braggadocio of the moment hid the fact that his 14 teammates, although quite happy to have this talented individual on their side, didn't see him as part of their team. That Welsh success in 2005 led to a surfeit of Welsh players in the Clive Woodward-led Lions squad to New Zealand.
Henson's inability to mix and form relationships on that tour was noted by anyone who was involved. It didn't help that he had written some pretty harsh and perhaps untrue things in his 'bewke' chronicled in the press pre tour. It begets a lack of intelligence that you accuse the tour captain of dirty play, even though there was a chance that Brian O'Driscoll would end up playing in the centre with him at some stage. What was he thinking?
After O'Driscoll's serious shoulder injury ended his tour, his loss was exacerbated by the media selection of Henson for the second test. This was a Welsh media selection and, surprisingly, Woodward did not have the cojones to resist and bowed to playing the Spice Boy. It was the worst performance I have seen from a midfield player in a Lions jersey. It was claimed that he was injured. Either way, he did not make the third test. With the obvious exception of the Welsh 2008 Grand Slam, Henson's career was pockmarked with injuries and undistinguished performances and quite a few sordid instances on the rugby field. Off the pitch there were any number of unsavoury incidents, including a drunken altercation on a train back to Cardiff where Henson was arrested along with a few friends – it's straight out of Dirty Sanchez
Henson's relationship with Charlotte Church led him down a different path and his rugby career suffered. Whether he wanted at age 26 to be a great player, it seemed that he wouldn't or couldn't do the hard work necessary to achieve it and being a celebrity was the easier path; the path of least resistance. The two lifestyles are incongruous. Reading about yourself in OK or Heat magazine dulls the competitive juices and work ethic of an elite athlete and your ego is magnetised to such an extent that you lose your desire to go out and do the things that make you a minor celebrity in the first place. Blaming injury, Henson took a career break, which is still ongoing.
Senior management in the Welsh and Ospreys camps would, from time to time, pop up on Ceefax or engage in sound bites in the briefs sections of newspapers wondering when he would come back. "The door was always open." "The phone was always on." Unpaid leave of absence. How in the name of God would anyone else get away with it? Why such levity? He had problems. What type of problems? Bradley Davies, the Welsh second row played against France in February, a day or so after his mother died.
Henson hasn't laced a boot in over 18 months because... well because he couldn't be arsed. I'm just wondering how his contract is still valid. I wonder if the Welsh Rugby Union is still testing him. Everybody else has to go through all those procedures. Henson has dropped down to an improbable 11 stone. I can't understand how. How or why are the Welsh Rugby Union so understanding or lenient? Do they know something we don't?
Henson's relationship with Church broke up two weeks ago after getting engaged a month prior to that – fuelling more soundbites and more celebrity mag gossip – yet there was no sign of Henson at pre-season training for Ospreys. Henson has gone on record as saying that he wants to play in the World Cup in 2011, which is great news for the Andrew Bishops of this world who have busted their balls for the last two years while Henson was out partying. A day after he made that statement it was confirmed that he would be appearing in Strictly Come Dancing – I think he has made his mind up. I'd say his teammates have too.
Danny Cipriani is in the stupid but saveable department. His inherent talent is obvious – far easier to discern than Henson's, but he too has been "infected" with the cult of celebrity.
Cipriani's rap sheet is just as extensive as Henson's having first come to national prominence when bedding Larissa Summers, formerly Darren Pratt, where the red-tops so eloquently put it "the 20-year-old fly-half had no idea that before her sex-swap op the stunner had very different tackle." Cipriani had the usual late-night punch-ups, suspensions and celebrity bust-ups before he met glamour model Kelly Brook who he coincidentally finished with at the same time Henson finished with Church. It is significant that Cipriani's other big news story was related to the time that Josh Lewsey (everything that is good about rugby in an English player) knocked him out cold in a training-ground spat. The two players shook hands and made light of the situation, but if it hadn't been Lewsey then there was a queue of players waiting to administer some well-earned medicine.
Will Greenwood was given grief for suggesting that the reason Martin Johnson dropped Cipriani from his squad was because he was deeply unpopular within the squad. Greenwood could not have been more correct. Cipriani's unquestionable talent was not going to save him.
Cipriani destroyed an out-of-sorts Ireland side in Twickenham a few seasons ago. It is rare that an out-half has searing pace. Cipriani was only slower than the electric Paul Sackey in the England squad at that time. Regular sprint sessions with Margo Wells (wife of Allan) kept him in great shape. He cut Ireland to pieces. That was, it looks like, his best match at age 20; his burgeoning talent left to wither on the vine.
As we write, Cipriani is due to head out to Melbourne to play in the extended Super 15 for the new franchise Rebels. The side is coached by respected coach Rod MacQueen – a World Cup winner in 1999. Stories are floating about in London depending on who you believe that Cipriani has had trials with West Ham, QPR, Fulham, Reading and Spurs. He has had a few reserve games with QPR and it seems a code switch is imminent despite signing a three-year deal with the Rebels. MacQueen is only getting a taster as the rumours fulminate.
When news came out that Cipriani was to leave Wasps, a club from whose academy he graduated to win the Heineken Cup, Lawrence Dallaglio was moved to ask why. He was, after all, on the board of management at the club.
Tony Hanks and Shaun Edwards took the phone calls. The terms "exasperating", "vulnerable", "no loss" and "too high maintenance" were used. It has been well documented that Cipriani had an awkward and tough upbringing but it seems he brings a lot of his off-field problems directly onto the field and it grates and sparks with all his teammates. Wasps were happy to let him go. Their fervent hope is that when he brings his suitcases with him to Australia he leaves his baggage behind.
The Aussies will be a different kettle of fish to his situation at Wasps. They don't take any ****. If Cipriani turns up with the same attitude, his talent won't be worth a warm pitcher of piss.
I think Cipriani's stay in Australia will be short lived, if indeed he pitches up at all, and it won't be long before his talent is extinguished. It is written in the stars, it will be impossible to reverse his fate.
Two shining lights, like a moth drawn to the flame, hypnotised and seduced by the cult of celebrity. Rugby has no precast mechanism to show them the side door. They chose it themselves – self regulation. The game won't miss them.
http://www.tribune.ie/sport/rugby/ar...elebrity-trap/
'It takes two hours to get ready. Hot bath, shave my legs and face, moisturise, put fake tan on and do my hair – which takes a bit of time." It could be your missus getting ready to go on a big night out but no, read on.
"I need my fellow players to say I'm looking good, I need it for my confidence. It gives you a boost. I don't want Charlotte to do my legs; she can concentrate on her own. Mine are smoother than hers."
March 2006: Friday night with Jonathan Ross – Gavin Henson has his 15 minutes of fame. Ross has his researchers do all the work and even though Henson is a rugby international, Ross goes to work on his Derek Zoolander alter ego. The two hours that Henson refers to are the two hours he takes to get ready to go off and play a rugby match. He is not talking about a social engagement. Ross, sensing a bit of weakness, starts to goad Henson but stops, as he belatedly realises that Henson is completely defenceless – it was like clubbing a baby seal. The interview collapsed as Ross realised that Henson was as vacuous an empty vessel as he had ever interviewed. There was no connect between interviewer and interviewee. Despite being feted as a media celebrity Henson has all the charisma of a coffin lid and it would be unfair to slag him.
Henson's model is a precursor and a disquieting precedent for the celebrity rugby player. We currently have two in the northern hemisphere – Henson and Danny Cipriani. They are good friends and that is not a coincidence. They, like quite a number of talented sportsmen, have this self-destructive genome in their DNA which leads to unfulfilled potential, distracted agendas and depressive mentality which is precipitated by early retirement and disillusion. Both of them are well on their ways down this path. It is plausible to suggest that we will not see either of them play a serious game of rugby union again. The question we have to ask is whether the disappearance of this Jedwarding pair is good or bad for the game.
Putative logic tells us that Henson is a quality player. I can't say that I agree with that. It's true that he played a part in Wales' two recent Grand Slams. He also played a large part in Ireland's recent Grand Slam. His playing qualities are obvious. He has a booming boot, he's a quality place kicker, he has good hands, he is good defensively and, despite a lazy gliding style of running, is deceptively quick. Yet there is something missing. How is it that you can have style without substance?
Never really a team player, he is more a self-contained unit within the team. When he famously took the ball from Gareth Thomas at the end of the Grand Slam game in Cardiff in 2005 and said, "Give me the ball and start celebrating", the braggadocio of the moment hid the fact that his 14 teammates, although quite happy to have this talented individual on their side, didn't see him as part of their team. That Welsh success in 2005 led to a surfeit of Welsh players in the Clive Woodward-led Lions squad to New Zealand.
Henson's inability to mix and form relationships on that tour was noted by anyone who was involved. It didn't help that he had written some pretty harsh and perhaps untrue things in his 'bewke' chronicled in the press pre tour. It begets a lack of intelligence that you accuse the tour captain of dirty play, even though there was a chance that Brian O'Driscoll would end up playing in the centre with him at some stage. What was he thinking?
After O'Driscoll's serious shoulder injury ended his tour, his loss was exacerbated by the media selection of Henson for the second test. This was a Welsh media selection and, surprisingly, Woodward did not have the cojones to resist and bowed to playing the Spice Boy. It was the worst performance I have seen from a midfield player in a Lions jersey. It was claimed that he was injured. Either way, he did not make the third test. With the obvious exception of the Welsh 2008 Grand Slam, Henson's career was pockmarked with injuries and undistinguished performances and quite a few sordid instances on the rugby field. Off the pitch there were any number of unsavoury incidents, including a drunken altercation on a train back to Cardiff where Henson was arrested along with a few friends – it's straight out of Dirty Sanchez
Henson's relationship with Charlotte Church led him down a different path and his rugby career suffered. Whether he wanted at age 26 to be a great player, it seemed that he wouldn't or couldn't do the hard work necessary to achieve it and being a celebrity was the easier path; the path of least resistance. The two lifestyles are incongruous. Reading about yourself in OK or Heat magazine dulls the competitive juices and work ethic of an elite athlete and your ego is magnetised to such an extent that you lose your desire to go out and do the things that make you a minor celebrity in the first place. Blaming injury, Henson took a career break, which is still ongoing.
Senior management in the Welsh and Ospreys camps would, from time to time, pop up on Ceefax or engage in sound bites in the briefs sections of newspapers wondering when he would come back. "The door was always open." "The phone was always on." Unpaid leave of absence. How in the name of God would anyone else get away with it? Why such levity? He had problems. What type of problems? Bradley Davies, the Welsh second row played against France in February, a day or so after his mother died.
Henson hasn't laced a boot in over 18 months because... well because he couldn't be arsed. I'm just wondering how his contract is still valid. I wonder if the Welsh Rugby Union is still testing him. Everybody else has to go through all those procedures. Henson has dropped down to an improbable 11 stone. I can't understand how. How or why are the Welsh Rugby Union so understanding or lenient? Do they know something we don't?
Henson's relationship with Church broke up two weeks ago after getting engaged a month prior to that – fuelling more soundbites and more celebrity mag gossip – yet there was no sign of Henson at pre-season training for Ospreys. Henson has gone on record as saying that he wants to play in the World Cup in 2011, which is great news for the Andrew Bishops of this world who have busted their balls for the last two years while Henson was out partying. A day after he made that statement it was confirmed that he would be appearing in Strictly Come Dancing – I think he has made his mind up. I'd say his teammates have too.
Danny Cipriani is in the stupid but saveable department. His inherent talent is obvious – far easier to discern than Henson's, but he too has been "infected" with the cult of celebrity.
Cipriani's rap sheet is just as extensive as Henson's having first come to national prominence when bedding Larissa Summers, formerly Darren Pratt, where the red-tops so eloquently put it "the 20-year-old fly-half had no idea that before her sex-swap op the stunner had very different tackle." Cipriani had the usual late-night punch-ups, suspensions and celebrity bust-ups before he met glamour model Kelly Brook who he coincidentally finished with at the same time Henson finished with Church. It is significant that Cipriani's other big news story was related to the time that Josh Lewsey (everything that is good about rugby in an English player) knocked him out cold in a training-ground spat. The two players shook hands and made light of the situation, but if it hadn't been Lewsey then there was a queue of players waiting to administer some well-earned medicine.
Will Greenwood was given grief for suggesting that the reason Martin Johnson dropped Cipriani from his squad was because he was deeply unpopular within the squad. Greenwood could not have been more correct. Cipriani's unquestionable talent was not going to save him.
Cipriani destroyed an out-of-sorts Ireland side in Twickenham a few seasons ago. It is rare that an out-half has searing pace. Cipriani was only slower than the electric Paul Sackey in the England squad at that time. Regular sprint sessions with Margo Wells (wife of Allan) kept him in great shape. He cut Ireland to pieces. That was, it looks like, his best match at age 20; his burgeoning talent left to wither on the vine.
As we write, Cipriani is due to head out to Melbourne to play in the extended Super 15 for the new franchise Rebels. The side is coached by respected coach Rod MacQueen – a World Cup winner in 1999. Stories are floating about in London depending on who you believe that Cipriani has had trials with West Ham, QPR, Fulham, Reading and Spurs. He has had a few reserve games with QPR and it seems a code switch is imminent despite signing a three-year deal with the Rebels. MacQueen is only getting a taster as the rumours fulminate.
When news came out that Cipriani was to leave Wasps, a club from whose academy he graduated to win the Heineken Cup, Lawrence Dallaglio was moved to ask why. He was, after all, on the board of management at the club.
Tony Hanks and Shaun Edwards took the phone calls. The terms "exasperating", "vulnerable", "no loss" and "too high maintenance" were used. It has been well documented that Cipriani had an awkward and tough upbringing but it seems he brings a lot of his off-field problems directly onto the field and it grates and sparks with all his teammates. Wasps were happy to let him go. Their fervent hope is that when he brings his suitcases with him to Australia he leaves his baggage behind.
The Aussies will be a different kettle of fish to his situation at Wasps. They don't take any ****. If Cipriani turns up with the same attitude, his talent won't be worth a warm pitcher of piss.
I think Cipriani's stay in Australia will be short lived, if indeed he pitches up at all, and it won't be long before his talent is extinguished. It is written in the stars, it will be impossible to reverse his fate.
Two shining lights, like a moth drawn to the flame, hypnotised and seduced by the cult of celebrity. Rugby has no precast mechanism to show them the side door. They chose it themselves – self regulation. The game won't miss them.
http://www.tribune.ie/sport/rugby/ar...elebrity-trap/
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43754.msg1320399#msg1320399 date=1303562802]
Just like Andy Powell ?
[/quote]
I've admitted i have been proven wrong with regards to Powell, but you've been wrong loads as well i think you'll find!
Remember when you said if S Jones started instead of ROG against South Africa that SJ would cost us the game? What actually ended up taking place was SJ nailed every kick and had a cracker whilst ROG came on and basically lost us the series.
Just like Andy Powell ?
[/quote]
I've admitted i have been proven wrong with regards to Powell, but you've been wrong loads as well i think you'll find!
Remember when you said if S Jones started instead of ROG against South Africa that SJ would cost us the game? What actually ended up taking place was SJ nailed every kick and had a cracker whilst ROG came on and basically lost us the series.
You're speaking crap again, but i'm a fair guy so i'll give you a chance to prove me wrong. So considering i've bigged up many a player on here, who fits in with your statement? I'm expecting at least 10 names
You can't argue that Henson has not been a very good rugby player like you are doing, it's just plain stupid.
He has the personal awards proving he was
He has the trophies proving he was (2 Grand Slams)
He has the international record proving he was (never lost a six nation game that he's started + a number of motm awards)
He's a B&I Lion (how many average players get that honour)
Despite his problems, why do so many of the top clubs in rugby want to sign him?
Give up Rosco, you're just wrong again.
You can't argue that Henson has not been a very good rugby player like you are doing, it's just plain stupid.
He has the personal awards proving he was
He has the trophies proving he was (2 Grand Slams)
He has the international record proving he was (never lost a six nation game that he's started + a number of motm awards)
He's a B&I Lion (how many average players get that honour)
Despite his problems, why do so many of the top clubs in rugby want to sign him?
Give up Rosco, you're just wrong again.
He was lucky to be part of the best Wales team since the 70's, he wasn't the main reason for any of the Welsh success.
Plenty of decent/average players have been on Lions tours particularly when Woodward brought a huge amount of players with him.
And I think you might find he started on the 21st March 2009 against Ireland.
He's never even played at he World Cup.
Plenty of decent/average players have been on Lions tours particularly when Woodward brought a huge amount of players with him.
And I think you might find he started on the 21st March 2009 against Ireland.
He's never even played at he World Cup.
He started all 10 games in our 2 recent Grand Slams, won motm awards in some of these, was our defence leader in our 2nd GS and scored some vital points along the way. How can you say that he didn't play a major role?
Yeah just checked and his one and only loss after starting a six nations game was the one you mention.
Yeah just checked and his one and only loss after starting a six nations game was the one you mention.
Here are the backs who went on that tour, "loads" of average rugby players hey?
Iain Balshaw
Geordan Murphy
Josh Lewsey
Gareth Thomas
Shane Horgan
Denis Hickie
Jason Robinson
Shane Williams
Gordon D'Arcy
Will Greenwood
Gavin Henson
Brian O'Driscoll
Tom Shanklin
Ollie Smith
Charlie Hodgson
Stephen Jones
Ronan O'Gara
Jonny Wilkinson
Gareth Cooper
Chris Cusiter
Matt Dawson
Dwayne Peel
Iain Balshaw
Geordan Murphy
Josh Lewsey
Gareth Thomas
Shane Horgan
Denis Hickie
Jason Robinson
Shane Williams
Gordon D'Arcy
Will Greenwood
Gavin Henson
Brian O'Driscoll
Tom Shanklin
Ollie Smith
Charlie Hodgson
Stephen Jones
Ronan O'Gara
Jonny Wilkinson
Gareth Cooper
Chris Cusiter
Matt Dawson
Dwayne Peel
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43754.msg1320361#msg1320361 date=1303558936]
Actions and words Rafa, if he was great they wouldn't be sacking him. and they certainly wouldn't be the third team this season to do it
[/quote]
Gavin Henson given reprieve by Toulon
Gavin Henson will remain at Toulon for at least the rest of the season after the club today concluded an investigation into his behaviour. The Wales centre was alleged to have been involved in an altercation with team-mates during celebrations after a victory over Toulouse two weeks ago.
Henson was suspended for a week and then put on gardening leave, leading to reports in France that he would be sacked by the Toulon president, Mourad Boudjellal, who was quoted as saying that the 29-year old was difficult to handle. Boudjellal, who denied making the remark about Henson, and the Toulon coach, Philippe Saint-André, met the player this morning and the club issued a statement saying that Henson, who has made two appearances for the club since joining from Saracens in January, was back in the fold.
Henson was training with the squad today for the first time since the incident and will be considered for the final match of the regular Top 14 season, away to Montpellier. Toulon will probably need to win to make the play-offs.
"This morning, the president Mourad Boudjellal and his staff at Toulon Rugby Club have decided on the reintegration of the Welsh centre Gavin Henson into the rugby group," read a club statement. "He is therefore part of the rugby playing process."
Actions and words Rafa, if he was great they wouldn't be sacking him. and they certainly wouldn't be the third team this season to do it
[/quote]
Gavin Henson given reprieve by Toulon
Gavin Henson will remain at Toulon for at least the rest of the season after the club today concluded an investigation into his behaviour. The Wales centre was alleged to have been involved in an altercation with team-mates during celebrations after a victory over Toulouse two weeks ago.
Henson was suspended for a week and then put on gardening leave, leading to reports in France that he would be sacked by the Toulon president, Mourad Boudjellal, who was quoted as saying that the 29-year old was difficult to handle. Boudjellal, who denied making the remark about Henson, and the Toulon coach, Philippe Saint-André, met the player this morning and the club issued a statement saying that Henson, who has made two appearances for the club since joining from Saracens in January, was back in the fold.
Henson was training with the squad today for the first time since the incident and will be considered for the final match of the regular Top 14 season, away to Montpellier. Toulon will probably need to win to make the play-offs.
"This morning, the president Mourad Boudjellal and his staff at Toulon Rugby Club have decided on the reintegration of the Welsh centre Gavin Henson into the rugby group," read a club statement. "He is therefore part of the rugby playing process."
If they are, Northampton will be the value bet.
Yeah. Both sides were affected by nerves but Bedford rode theirs better for part of the game.
The whole Championship set-up is ridiculous. Not only did the Warriors finish streets ahead of the rest, they're the only team whose ground and facilities would be accepted in the Prem. If we wind up losing the final to Cornish Pirates they won't get promoted - Leeds will stay up.
The whole Championship set-up is ridiculous. Not only did the Warriors finish streets ahead of the rest, they're the only team whose ground and facilities would be accepted in the Prem. If we wind up losing the final to Cornish Pirates they won't get promoted - Leeds will stay up.
Or the fact that Tuilagi is thick as two short planks.
So according to the level he was charged at he should of been banned for between 8-52 weeks, yet ended up with a 5 week ban. From the reports i've read because he was provoked (he was slightly pushed after making a high tackle on Ashton) and he was very sorry, they reduced his ban. I guess it can't have anything to do with the fact that he's now free to play in Englands 3 pre world cup games can it?
All of that is fair comment. Nothing similar would ever apply in the Principality of course. 
He should have been banned for 6 or 12 months but, seeing as England are slight at inside centre and their previous 2 New Zealanders haven't quite pulled it off, he'll be available for the WC.
