The myth of fingerprints.

[keniget]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=39968.msg1094387#msg1094387 date=1272402027]
I'll never forget the match against the Gooners where Crouch and Voronin both started out wide.
[/quote]

Heh, still stands out to me as the most absurd tactics ever used.

Anyways, good post Oncey. I don't agree with all your analysis, but certainly the bottom line rings true. The revolving door of squaddies hasn't quite worked for Rafa.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=39968.msg1094387#msg1094387 date=1272402027]
I'll never forget the match against the Gooners where Crouch and Voronin both started out wide.
[/quote]

Wasn't it away to Reading. They were either side of Torres.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=39968.msg1094401#msg1094401 date=1272403072]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=39968.msg1094387#msg1094387 date=1272402027]
I'll never forget the match against the Gooners where Crouch and Voronin both started out wide.
[/quote]

Wasn't it away to Reading. They were either side of Torres.
[/quote]

Yeah, it was Reading away. We lost 3-1.

 

[Molbystwin]

It is an excellent post no doubt but to me it says when you have to wheeler deal you can buy lemons.... rafa has also sold on a number of those players for good profits, a number of whom wanted to leave, a number of the players on the list are indeed top class but sadly we didnt have enough money to buy enough class.

Undoubtedly there are numerous duds on there no doubt but numerous successes also.

Players rafa wanted but the club was unable to buy include Alves, Walcott,Barry, Villa, Malouda.

IMO the real problem is having to wheeler deal your way to a title. More investment was clearly needed.Loads of us sitting here last summer praying for that needed investment to build on what we'd achieved...because unlike the majority on here i trust the man i was really hoping that for once they let him buy big enough for the final push over with some quality.We've all seen what happened we weakened,everyone knew it, the players fucking knew it and the players have said as much since then....partly Rafas fault, Aqualani being a washout this season, Kenae last season, but I remember the silly season threads last summer when people were still holding on for Silva to arrive to help out in attack.... nah.....

We still had enough to finish top four and we wont, but we needed, badly needed another striker and i think we got humped by the owners, yep Rafa has been shit this season and the players have been shit and or injured... even captain fantastic.... but when your owners are treaading financual water and not backing you and your opponents are getting stronger then there is no real surprise.

I truly hope you lot don't get your wish ( albeit our ultimate desire for the club to win the league is shared on both sides of the argument ) and Rafa is sacked or as more likely walks but if it does happen ... well fucking hell.. what a fucking basket case of a club we will be then.

really really fucked in fact.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

*groans*

I am in awe Oncey.........

As we said the other day Rafa has sold what was seen as "deadwood" and replaced it with a plethera of unproven european youngsters.

regards

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39968.msg1094418#msg1094418 date=1272405053]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

*groans*

I am in awe Oncey.........

As we said the other day Rafa has sold what was seen as "deadwood" and replaced it with a plethera of unproven european youngsters.

regards
[/quote]

I read that as one continually offside glass legged wife beating overpriced frenchman sold, 1 no necked welsh goyt tinker who moves annually sold (for profit) and one talented though inconsistent player Partxchnged for Torres.... the incoming list i just read as bargain basement shopping again.

In hindsight the cash for the much fancied Babel and the fucking atrocious Lucas could have certainly been put to better use.

 

[Rosco]

In comparison to other teams Molby how do you see our spending in the past 6 years ?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39968.msg1094424#msg1094424 date=1272405748]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39968.msg1094418#msg1094418 date=1272405053]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

*groans*

I am in awe Oncey.........

As we said the other day Rafa has sold what was seen as "deadwood" and replaced it with a plethera of unproven european youngsters.

regards
[/quote]

I read that as one continually offside glass legged wife beating overpriced frenchman sold, 1 no necked welsh goyt tinker who moves annually sold (for profit) and one talented though inconsistent player Partxchnged for Torres.... the incoming list i just read as bargain basement shopping again.

In hindsight the cash for the much fancied Babel and the fucking atrocious Lucas could have certainly been put to better use.
[/quote]

I was never ever a fan of Cisse, but I tell you one thing for nothing Molby, he is a much better option than anything we currently have to cover for Torres.
As for your dislike of Bellamy, if we still had him it is very unlikely we would be in the shitty position we are now, likewise if City did not have him they would be in a position lower than us. As for the allegation he is perenial journeyman of his own choice, he didn't want to go and he didn't deserve to go.

regards

 

[spider-Neil]

I think the partnership has helped and hampered rafa because

a) a half decent striker is going to grow fraustrated at no being able to force their way into the side (crouch)

b) both players (gerrard/torres) are becoming increasingly injury prone

c) a top class striker at another club thinking about joining my be worried they wont be able to force their way in the side

I think this the reason we are thin on the ground with regards to strikers. crouch couldn't force his way into the team and neither could keane. although it would have been nice to have the keane money to reinvest in the team.

 

[Molbystwin]

s[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39968.msg1094426#msg1094426 date=1272406476]
In comparison to other teams Molby how do you see our spending in the past 6 years ?
[/quote]

Too spread out Rosco... spread out....

We needed a spree like Chelsea had twice or indeed City this year.... generally never quite enough to get the job done Undoubtedly rafa has made mistakes with some of the cash but IMO he would have had to nail every single penny of spending on just the right players to have got it right.

He didnt of course... the fat spanish twat...

I dont know Ross im just sure that being broke has worn us down, certainly this last summer didnt help... I'm as fucking gutted as everyone with whats going on with the club with fat Rafa, fucking aqualanis ankle el traidor Alonso, that gypo Keane with his magic fucking tarmac , fucking MOMO FUCKING Sissoko included...WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?? ... Momo Sissoko... fucking bambi... he reminded me of Bambi... im disintegrating into a messy ball of fucking anger at it all.. i'm 36 now... i was still at school when we last won it... i had wicked hair, not even a fucking hint of grey... cathy fucking Parsons ...hubba hubba hubba.... i even had something approaching a six pack and was hammered on no more than 5 beers..

8 pounds pay on the Kop.. and we sang like fucking mentalists...


I could handle the club not having sugar daddy owners able to back the manager heavily if we were making progress on the stadium side of things... at least that would avail us a future competitiveness. ....20 fucking years... However many of you phrase it or put figures on it I just am sure that the stupid spik cunt can do it if he's given the right backing... i dont think he's had that yet. I realise i'm alone in my opinion i just cant be arsed to fight everyone right this second.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39968.msg1094428#msg1094428 date=1272407290]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39968.msg1094424#msg1094424 date=1272405748]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39968.msg1094418#msg1094418 date=1272405053]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

*groans*

I am in awe Oncey.........

As we said the other day Rafa has sold what was seen as "deadwood" and replaced it with a plethera of unproven european youngsters.

regards
[/quote]

I read that as one continually offside glass legged wife beating overpriced frenchman sold, 1 no necked welsh goyt tinker who moves annually sold (for profit) and one talented though inconsistent player Partxchnged for Torres.... the incoming list i just read as bargain basement shopping again.

In hindsight the cash for the much fancied Babel and the fucking atrocious Lucas could have certainly been put to better use.
[/quote]

I was never ever a fan of Cisse, but I tell you one thing for nothing Molby, he is a much better option than anything we currently have to cover for Torres.
As for your dislike of Bellamy, if we still had him it is very unlikely we would be in the shitty position we are now, likewise if City did not have him they would be in a position lower than us. As for the allegation he is perenial journeyman of his own choice, he didn't want to go and he didn't deserve to go.

regards
[/quote]

its true i never liked Bellamy, i quite liked Cisse, even though obviously Bellamy is better, both of them are clearly better than nobody which is what we have now... i read a nice article about Bellers which said something along the line of he was donating loads of money to some very worthy charity somehwere or other... in the millions apparently... just goes to show appearances can be deceptive.

He does move clubs rather often though it has to be said.

 

[Ryan]

Oncy, would it not have been easier to type "Rafa's bought some shite players" mate?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39968.msg1094445#msg1094445 date=1272409128]
Oncy, would it not have been easier to type "Rafa's bought some shite players" mate?
[/quote]Would it not be easier for you to type 'we played a defensive 4-2-3-1 formation and lost' every week?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39968.msg1094446#msg1094446 date=1272409435]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39968.msg1094445#msg1094445 date=1272409128]
Oncy, would it not have been easier to type "Rafa's bought some shite players" mate?
[/quote]Would it not be easier for you to type 'we played a defensive 4-2-3-1 formation and lost' every week?
[/quote]

Touche.

 

[Ryan]

Nonetheless, this happens on the forum of every club in the world I'd say.

I read a thread on redcafe one time where someone had detailed the money spent and wasted on replacements by Ferguson. Twas quite interesting.

Something like 30M waxed on goalkeepers to replace Schmeichel, and a further 70M odd to find one for Keane.

 

[Squiggles]

True enough but Fergie has built that club up to the point where they can piss their money away. It wasn't always that way. And in any case, Fergie can compensate with a weakish squad by doing whatever he does to keep them winning trophies. I think the comparisons to Fergie do show how difficult signing players can be, but they do nothing to excuse some of Rafa's huge failings in the market.

 

[zlatan18]

Good post. Rafa has made some good purchases but has got it wrong so many times. getting rid of decent squadies and replacing them with players like voronin, dossena etc or not replacing them at all. 2007 was the end of benitez.. all went wrong after that in the transfer market.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39968.msg1094450#msg1094450 date=1272409683]
Nonetheless, this happens on the forum of every club in the world I'd say.

I read a thread on redcafe one time where someone had detailed the money spent and wasted on replacements by Ferguson. Twas quite interesting.

Something like 30M waxed on goalkeepers to replace Schmeichel, and a further 70M odd to find one for Keane.
[/quote]

What? You mean other managers have wasted money trying to improve their squads? Impossible. Only Benitez is shit in the transfer market. Its written on here so it must be true.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Ha.

 

[Oncy]

How is it relevant how much other managers waste? Rafa is our manager at our club.

 

[Ryan]

Because the inference is that Rafa is the exception Oncy, when he's not - he's the rule.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39968.msg1094570#msg1094570 date=1272442415]
Because the inference is that Rafa is the exception Oncy, when he's not - he's the rule.
[/quote]

you could counter than by saying fergie, jose and whinger have all wasted money but have won the league

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39968.msg1094574#msg1094574 date=1272442718]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39968.msg1094570#msg1094570 date=1272442415]
Because the inference is that Rafa is the exception Oncy, when he's not - he's the rule.
[/quote]

you could counter than by saying fergie, jose and whinger have all wasted money but have won the league
[/quote]

You could, yes.

Wenger hasn't won it in 6 years though.
Mourinho spent more money (or inherited more expensive players) than anyone ever, and..
Ferguson's the exception. But then we knew that anyway.

 

[doctor_mac]

Maybe I'm wrong, but Rafa has had much more of a revolving door than any of those other managers.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39968.msg1094562#msg1094562 date=1272441339]
How is it relevant how much other managers waste? Rafa is our manager at our club.
[/quote]

It acts as good comparison for starters.

We all know that Rafa has made quite a few mistakes in the transfer market Oncy (and that he should of done better).

You should take a look at the transfer records of the managers who have been more successful than Rafa since he's been with us (not many). I think you'll find that they have made more costly mistakes than our current boss has.

His net spend is roughly £75m and for that we've added the likes of:

Torres, Mascher, Pepe, Agger, Kuyt, Skrtel, Magic, Yossi, Riera, Lucas, Babel, Maxi and Aquilani. + with on eye on the future a whole host of youngsters too.

Would you say thats £75m well spent?

 

[Ossi]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

That´s horrible!

Of course there is a chance that he had to sell Bellamy because of his off field antics (the golf swing etc).

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Ossi link=topic=39968.msg1094609#msg1094609 date=1272444813]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

That´s horrible!

Of course there is a chance that he had to sell Bellamy because of his off field antics (the golf swing etc).
[/quote]

and there was definitely room for improvement on Garcia, but those signings are horrible. Especially Babel and Lucas as they cost around 20 million between them. Although in saying that, most people were happy when we signed Babel (and Ryan was very excited when Lucas was signed because Tim Vickery said he was good and Tim is never wrong).

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=39968.msg1094631#msg1094631 date=1272447526]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=39968.msg1094609#msg1094609 date=1272444813]

Alas Rafa sold Cisse, Bellamy, Garcia and replaced them with
Leto
Lucas
Voronin
Babel
Insua
Itjande

That´s horrible!

Of course there is a chance that he had to sell Bellamy because of his off field antics (the golf swing etc).
[/quote]

and there was definitely room for improvement on Garcia, but those signings are horrible. Especially Babel and Lucas as they cost around 20 million between them. Although in saying that, most people were happy when we signed Babel (and Ryan was very excited when Lucas was signed because Tim Vickery said he was good and Tim is never wrong).
[/quote]

babel - 11m
lucas - 6m

looks like bad now, sometimes potential pans out and sometimes it doesn't, that's life.

 

[etchy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39968.msg1094589#msg1094589 date=1272443231]
It acts as good comparison for starters.

We all know that Rafa has made quite a few mistakes in the transfer market Oncy (and that he should of done better).
You should take a look at the transfer records of the managers who have been more successful than Rafa since he's been with us (not many). I think you'll find that they have made more costly mistakes than our current boss has.

His net spend is roughly £75m and for that we've added the likes of:
Torres, Mascher, Pepe, Agger, Kuyt, Skrtel, Magic, Yossi, Riera, Lucas, Babel, Maxi and Aquilani. + with on eye on the future a whole host of youngsters too.
Would you say thats £75m well spent?
[/quote]
this sums it up for me. squad has defintely improved since Rafa's taken over barring some atrocious signings. He is doing fairly well with average of 12-15mil per session, to have built this squad.

 

[Fox]

excellent post, ace research oncey

I agree with most of it and I think it is purely Rafa's fault if he cannot keep players happy in the squad that don't play every week. There are loads of top players in other clubs squads that don't play every game but they seem to be man managed better, Crouch is great example as is Bellamy.

Ex players have said in the past that Rafa ignores you and does not speak to you if you are not int the first team so I only blame him for that.

Selling players after a year when you really wanted them is plain stupid, surely every player especially from abroad needs two seasons to see how they go. Wenger had bought some top players in who struggled in their first season, Rafa seems to lack patience.

I hope when Rafa leaves we find out what the fuck happened in the Keane transfer as that one still bothers me.


It is Rafa's fault Xabi left as he managed the Barry situation so badly and public the year before.
Enjoyed that read.