Are we at least....

[Frogfish]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=45965.msg1359360#msg1359360 date=1309773778]

I just hope that there is an up-side to the premium we are paying for "Premiership experienced but Proven Average", as opposed to "Continental Hopefuls but could turn out dire". None of these players are gonna make us challenge for sure.

The transfer window is long, and it hasn't even opened yet - i hear (i have no idea about these things)....lets hope for better news. I don't want the Downing for sure. I see no upside to spending a shit load of money on that lad.
[/quote]

Why not ?

Last season we would have finished 2nd - just 3 or 4 points adrift - had the season started when KK took over. Without Gerrard. Without a fit Carroll. Without Johnson, Kelly, Agger and Aurelio for large spells too.

If we add Downing, Adam, a CB, a Striker and possibly a LB (though TBH I don't think that position really needs strengthening) and play pass and move and commit players forward, all of which we were doing under KK, then I fail to see how we will go backwards and not push on. Of course if we get even better players then the odds of actually winning the PL shorten too.

 

[Rosco]

I'm with KJ on this one. Downing is all he is ever going to be, he may be good enough to help us into yhe top four but I was under the impression we were aiming higher than that. To make such an outlay on Downing doesnt make much sense to me in the circumstances.

I would approach any signing this summer by asking one simple question - can i see him as part of a title winning team in two to three years time? Downing could probably play a role but i wouldnt envisage him as a.major contributor or driving force in a push forthe Premiership. The difficulty is if we pay 20m for him we make it more difficult for ourselves to add players who can be major contributors to a title team.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45965.msg1359366#msg1359366 date=1309774662]
I'm with KJ on this one. Downing is all he is ever going to be, he may be good enough to help us into yhe top four but I was under the impression we were aiming higher than that. To make such an outlay on Downing doesnt make much sense to me in the circumstances.

I would approach any signing this summer by asking one simple question - can i see him as part of a title winning team in two to three years time? Downing could probably play a role but i wouldnt envisage him as a.major contributor or driving force in a push forthe Premiership. The difficulty is if we pay 20m for him we make it more difficult for ourselves to add players who can be major contributors to a title team.
[/quote]

Success breeds success though. I get the point, though I think he is capable, (the question is if we get another attacking player of genuine quality because we need more than just a wide player), I just think if we get into the top four then that in itself provides both attraction and more income. I do genuinely think we'll have ambitions of mounting a challenge this season because of our lack of European football but I think first and foremost our immediate goal has to be CL qualification. For genuine class I don't think we're that far off when compared to our rivals, what we've lacked for a few years is strength in depth and a bit of variation. Suarez, Gerrard and arguably Carroll are top quality and then you have the likes of Ming, Kuyt and Johnson, adding Adam and Downing will strengthen that again and give us more variation. We lack a wide player who can provide good service and we lack a setpiece taker with genuine threat, if we add that and add another creative/attacking spark I'd be more than happy.

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=45965.msg1359280#msg1359280 date=1309760730]
What is the end-purpose of these purchase...the lofty ambition of getting 4th place?
[/quote]

One of the things City did when they were purchased was buy some 'prem proven players' they were in a situation (similar to us now) where they were quite a bit away from 4th place and the Champions League boost (both financially (though of course City didnt need that) and in terms of ability to attract players, be called a big club etc). They got Barry, Milner, Lescott, Bellamy, Tevez, Adebayor, Cruz, Kolo Toure. All players in the prem who were doing well for a club that was in the top 8 or so. Those players along with a few decent buys from abroad allowed them to build a squad that was strong enough to finish 4th and now they will most likely push on from there.
I see 4th as a milestone, its about getting there and then pushing on from there. It's crazy to suggest we will challenge after coming 6th and 7th in the previous seasons with all the change and comings and goings at LFC. Also its a little silly to say about lofty positions, it is what it is, and we are in a situation that stinks right about now. We should have short terms goals that allow us to reach our long term goal of Prem Champions.

Though I'm not exactly shouting from the roof tops about Downing, I can kinda see the logic involved in the purchase and after that its sitting back and hoping and praying.
On the other hand, I also saw the logic of bringing in Roy to steady the ship during difficult times, I sat back and watched as the ship damn near sunk.

 

[Rosco]

Ironic tha you advocate some of the worst transfers in recent history as the way forward Atlas.

Only Barry and Tevez contributed significantly to City's rise to fourth, the rest are the basis for arguing that the quickest way to waste money in the Premiership is to buy "premiership proven" players.

 

[Atlas]

I'm not advocating the signings Ross, I'm saying it seems it was a plan to purchase those players who would help them push for 4th and then push on from there.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Atlas link=topic=45965.msg1359398#msg1359398 date=1309778101]
I'm not advocating the signings Ross, I'm saying it seems it was a plan to purchase those players who would help them push for 4th and then push on from there.
[/quote]

Still having those players on the wage bill is now holding them back from pushing on.

 

[kingjulian]

I'd add Bellamy (well he managed to get them to 5th) and Kolo Toure to that list....the rest were/are muck.

Tevez and Toure were world-class players who had proved in the prem at the very top of the table and at international level already. So it hardly counts as "Prem proven players from clubs slightly below us"


The situation is hardly comparable too.

Before takeover - City were relegation fodder before the take over. We have consistently been challenging for 4th place at least and sometimes challenged for various the title and cups too with varying degree of success.

After takeover - we still don't have money to buy first teamers and bench players on a whole-sale basis, the way City bought.

But point taken....there are two ways of doing it. I hope we don't take what seems like the safe option and burn our finger again. The way we did with Roy. This is the reason we have "Football Director" in place, he will either keep his position or be sacked by Dec2012. Let's hope he keeps it, as that would mean we are in the top 4 comfortably.