Diamonds are made under pressure

[Brizzle]

It’s surely time to change formation to get the best out of our squad. I can’t help thinking 442 diamond is what we need.

We might lose an attacker but we would gain control, balance and arguably be able to get attacking wide full backs more into play

For me the line is ultimately this

Ali

Bradders / Frim
Konate
VVD
Kerkez

Gravy
Macca
Szob

Wirtz

Ekitike / Mo
Isak

We broke our transfer record on Wirtz who doesn’t fit our 433 so we need to build a system he fits in, which i think you can argue our two CF signings also signals a need for.

It then becomes easy to pivot back to 433 if required.

Crump said it a week or so ago but we have been v lucky to get final min winners and without we’d be around mid table at best crying out for a change.

grab those balls Arne

 

[StevieM]

I can’t stop hearing Shirley Bassey singing this thread title every time I see it.

 

[Whaddapie]

Well, nobody does it better...

 

[JohnnyRocket]

Interesting thought.

In a 4-3-1-2 Salah could essentially play a free role roaming around the right forward area, and Isak/Ekitike could do the same from the left, which they kind of do anyway.

We have very attacking fullbacks, which you need in a 4-3-1-2.

Szobo is the perfect type of tireless worker you need to play wide in the "3".

And of course, it works perfectly for Wirtz to play the 10 and centrepiece of the side.

The trouble is, no team has every won the Premier League with a 4-3-1-2. Even the Italian teams dont play it too much anymore. Maybe because when you break it down, its essentially a flawed system.

It leaves you exposed down the flanks when defending, because the fullbacks dont have support in front of them. Its harder to press the opposition back, because you dont have the same front line and wide forwards like you do in a 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. And it places so much emphasis on one player to perform - the number 10. Nullify the 10 and that's half the opposition's job done.

 

[StevieM]

Well, nobody does it better...

Apart from Carly Simon…

 

[mark1975]

I think a lot now will hinge on how Ekitike and Isak play together and getting them in the same line up. We're already horribly exposed down the flanks, so I don't see a diamond helping, and essentially Wirtz is struggling for time in the middle of the park, so I don't know if keeping him there helps, but we have three "starter" forwards to already accommodate, so it's an interesting headache to have.

For me I'd go with:

-----------------Alisson-------------
Bradley---Konate---VVD---Robbo
-----------------Gravy--------------
-----Szobo------------Macca-------
---Salah-------Isak-----Ekitike------

Let everyone else earn their fucking place.

 

[localny]

I can’t stop hearing Shirley Bassey singing this thread title every time I see it.

Surely you can’t be serious..

 

[keniget]

Isn't this a variation of the system that led to us getting mullered by Palace?

 

[Fabio]

Isn't this a variation of the system that led to us getting mullered by Palace?

Same players but different system. I feel like the first half against palace it was very much wirtz wide and cutting in. And failing.

Ideally midfield diamond of

----------Wirtz---------
Macca-------Szob
------------Grav-----

With the fullbacks bombing up. Szob or Macca can go forward or backwards depending on the moment.

Im a believer in quality shining even in systems that don't play to their strengths.....but wirtz at the minute is giving me fucking HUGE buyers remorse . He doesn't fit our system and he also doesn't seem to be finding any idea of how to play to his strengths in that system.

He hopefully turns a corner, but right now id probably drop him over Salah. And salahs been fucking dreadful

 

[Buddha]

Interesting thought.

In a 4-3-1-2 Salah could essentially play a free role roaming around the right forward area, and Isak/Ekitike could do the same from the left, which they kind of do anyway.

We have very attacking fullbacks, which you need in a 4-3-1-2.

Szobo is the perfect type of tireless worker you need to play wide in the "3".

And of course, it works perfectly for Wirtz to play the 10 and centrepiece of the side.

The trouble is, no team has every won the Premier League with a 4-3-1-2. Even the Italian teams dont play it too much anymore. Maybe because when you break it down, its essentially a flawed system.

It leaves you exposed down the flanks when defending, because the fullbacks dont have support in front of them. Its harder to press the opposition back, because you dont have the same front line and wide forwards like you do in a 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. And it places so much emphasis on one player to perform - the number 10. Nullify the 10 and that's half the opposition's job done.

Good points there…

Re the last sentence, I think that’s mitigated somewhat by playing a fit Isak and Ekitike together as the front two. Both are elite and can hold the ball up, have pace to get in behind and can pull wide to receive the ball. With Grav / Macca / Szobo in behind and VVD a long ball specialist, we’ve plenty of scope to not have to rely on play going through the 10 if he’s double marked.

 

[Beamrider]

Surely you can’t be serious..

He is serious, and don't call him Shirley.

 

[Modo]

Not saying that it's a bad idea, but I just don't see Slot changing it up mid season

 

[MomoWASright]

Not saying that it's a bad idea, but I just don't see Slot changing it up mid season

That makes our transfer strategy look fucking stupid if that’s the case.

 

[Brizzle]

Not saying that it's a bad idea, but I just don't see Slot changing it up mid season

If a manager can't adapt, they might have a short shelf life

 

[Modo]

If a manager can't adapt, they might have a short shelf life

Adapting is one thing, changing a line up mid season is something totally different, unless said line up is somewhat familiar.

 

[peterhague]

He's not going to change his plans, which he's just bought several expensive players specifically for, after 7 games of indifferent form, 6 of which he's won anyway. And nor fucking should he. It was always likely to take time to gel. Maybe after 20 games is the time you'd seriously look at it - assuming we're not still top of the league, of course.

 

[StevieM]

Surely you can’t be serious..

I am… and stop calling me Shirley

 

[StevieM]

Whatever tweaks and changes Slot makes - it’s not going to involve Mo sitting on the bench - and nor should it.

Getting Mo more involved closer to the goal will return more than “trying” someone else there in a different system.

 

[mark1975]

Adapting is one thing, changing a line up mid season is something totally different, unless said line up is somewhat familiar.

It would be pretty dumb though to spend a few hundred million on players with a particular system and lineup in mind, to then change it to accommodate players who we now feel after 6 games don't fit it.

I don't think it's a "system" problem at all. We need to just:

* Get the balance right and stop playing too many lightweight players in the same lineup
* Stop playing shitty football where we let the opposition have too much of the ball
* Stop playing shitty tactics where we allow teams to expose us way too easily
* Stop shitty agenda's against fringe players while over-using the same players time and time again, even if they are playing shit.

 

[mark1975]

So tonight we'll obviously play Salah, Macca, Konate and whoever else we fancy running into the ground or relying on while they are putting in garbage performances.

 

[Modo]

It would be pretty dumb though to spend a few hundred million on players with a particular system and lineup in mind, to then change it to accommodate players who we now feel after 6 games don't fit it.

I don't think it's a "system" problem at all. We need to just:

* Get the balance right and stop playing too many lightweight players in the same lineup
* Stop playing shitty football where we let the opposition have too much of the ball
* Stop playing shitty tactics where we allow teams to expose us way too easily
* Stop shitty agenda's against fringe players while over-using the same players time and time again, even if they are playing shit.

Basically go back to Klopp footie

 

[Buddha]

He's not going to change his plans, which he's just bought several expensive players specifically for, after 7 games of indifferent form, 6 of which he's won anyway. And nor fucking should he. It was always likely to take time to gel. Maybe after 20 games is the time you'd seriously look at it - assuming we're not still top of the league, of course.

Thing is, we don’t know if those players were bought with a shift in system in mind (with an eye on late career Salah or post-Salah)…so having started the season conservatively continuing the ‘known’ system, the shift in tactics / formation might not be reactive but part of a season long planned shift.

 

[Squiggles]

It seems pretty wind we've gone from "BeSt TrAnSfEr WiNdOw In FoOtBaLl HiStOrY' to meddling with systems so early on.

It's not a great indication we've got things right, but early days yadda, yadda. I'm confident they're all good players (although having doubts about Frimpong) but whether we've made the most of the money is another important matter.

 

[peterhague]

Thing is, we don’t know if those players were bought with a shift in system in mind (with an eye on late career Salah or post-Salah)…so having started the season conservatively continuing the ‘known’ system, the shift in tactics / formation might not be reactive but part of a season long planned shift.

You mean the shift in tactics on Saturday? Looked to me like that was just a specific response to Palace imo. That sort of thing I've got no problem with per se. I'm more talking about a fundamental change to the set up, game to game. The default system.

 

[keniget]

It seems pretty wind we've gone from "BeSt TrAnSfEr WiNdOw In FoOtBaLl HiStOrY' to meddling with systems so early on.

It's not a great indication we've got things right, but early days yadda, yadda. I'm confident there's all good players (although having doubts about Frimpong) but whether we've made the most of the money is another important matter.

Yeah but anyone that voices concerns is generally branded as negative and gets comments like "fans want us to spend money and then when we do, they still moan!". Posts have to be heavily couched and caveated and they still get jumped on.

 

[localny]

I am… and stop calling me Bradley

No worries Bradders. 🤣

 

[Buddha]

You mean the shift in tactics on Saturday? Looked to me like that was just a specific response to Palace imo. That sort of thing I've got no problem with per se. I'm more talking about a fundamental change to the set up, game to game. The default system.

No I’m talking about the transfers in the summer being consciously connected to a planned shift (over the season) to a new default system as we gradually look towards a new spine.

 

[peterhague]

No I’m talking about the transfers in the summer being consciously connected to a planned shift (over the season) to a new default system as we gradually look towards a new spine.

Well that's obviously a possibility.

 

[Brizzle]

Adapting is one thing, changing a line up mid season is something totally different, unless said line up is somewhat familiar.

It’s been 6 games. That’s not mid

 

[Full Stop]

Nice title. True but I do wonder about the time it may take and how that relates to the quality. Looks like I'm back. Or perhaps not. It seems fair to say that it is only now that Liverpool is fully transitioning away from Klopp, his systems, his players, and his style of play. He was a very, very successful manager.

Personally(!!) I was both very surprised and disappointed to see FSG let Klopp go. I thought that the way to go was to work with Klopp to force particular players onto him that would get him to modify/change his systems. That, I think, would've been OPTIMAL FOOTBALL that would maintain Klopp's general energy, enthusiasm, systems and approach but that would also add some stability and other ways of doing and thinking. But that was probably very naïve of me. I suppose such things were proving impossible when it came to managing while maintaining good personal relations and stuff of that sort. This now is a new territory. Who knows what this Liverpool team/squad will turn into and how it will settle?

ps Klopp didn't believe in 9s and 10s. And now we have 2 9s and 3 10s. And Salah seems lost.