ECHO: Agger's off to Leverkusen

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343971#msg1343971 date=1307365377]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=45634.msg1343960#msg1343960 date=1307365142]
For the love of God, someone ban KHL.
[/quote]
Just press the ignore button.
[/quote]

It was a joke.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=45634.msg1343974#msg1343974 date=1307365403]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343971#msg1343971 date=1307365377]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=45634.msg1343960#msg1343960 date=1307365142]
For the love of God, someone ban KHL.
[/quote]
Just press the ignore button.
[/quote]

It was a joke.
[/quote]
I didn't get it. Soz.

I hate when posters put me on ignore anyways.

*sigh of relief*

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45634.msg1343962#msg1343962 date=1307365211]
skrtel played every league game this season and didn't do that badly

he's prone to a mistake but he's a no nonsense defender. i don't get why he's not good enough
[/quote]

He's young and still learning, people forget the amount of mistakes Carra made at the same age, while Sami wasn't infallible either in his early days. He's learning and with the right partner he can become even better.

"Agger is easily one of our best players when fit". See, it's that fucks me off, he's a good player but don't over play it and definitely don't exaggerate. He's good but he's not exceptional and hardly ever fully fit and then when he is all he does is fucking moan if he's not in the team straight away.

 

[the count]

Kristian, as much as I like Agger we would be mad to turn down nearly £10m.
Add a bit more to that and we could have a cetre half every bit as good as Dani but who is fit to play for ninety five percent of games

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343973#msg1343973 date=1307365384]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343963#msg1343963 date=1307365211]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343954#msg1343954 date=1307364914]
Kris mate, he's never ever fit. Good player when he is but that's for like 3 weeks a season.
[/quote]
It's ruining his career I know mate. But there's still hope.

And as he did manage 25 games last Season and is eager to prove everyone including himself that he can stay fit he should get another Season. The lad's still only 26-years-old so if he somehow should come good we'd have a world class defender for the next ten years. Don't forget Sami was almost as old when first arrived.
[/quote]

He played 1551 minutes last season. The equivalent of 17 full games
[/quote]
He started fit only reason he didn't play as much was Roy benching him. But still you are very right that's not impressive in any way.

Still hope we keep on to him. And that he starts to stop beeing constantly injured.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=the count link=topic=45634.msg1343978#msg1343978 date=1307365579]
Kristian, as much as I like Agger we would be mad to turn down nearly £10m.
Add a bit more to that and we could have a cetre half every bit as good as Dani but who is fit to play for ninety five percent of games
[/quote]

ZACKERLY.

 

[Fabio]

/thread

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343968#msg1343968 date=1307365343]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45634.msg1343962#msg1343962 date=1307365211]
skrtel played every league game this season and didn't do that badly

he's prone to a mistake but he's a no nonsense defender. i don't get why he's not good enough
[/quote]
Look this is why we have got a debate on the forum alright. One thinks player Y is good whereas another thinks he's not good enough. Skrtel is not in any way a convincing defender IMO and there's no real key strength or ability in him either. Fair enough if you disagree mate that's how I see it.

Agger or no Agger.
[/quote]

Skrtel is the only defender I've ever seen - the ONLY defender, and that includes Dan Agger - to have taken Drogba on and bested him in a straightforward physical battle, and since the New Year Kenny's management and Clarke's coaching have been bringing out the best in his all-round game. You say "Agger or no Agger" but I'm afraid your partisanship on this issue seems to me to be clouding your judgment.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343979#msg1343979 date=1307365655]

He started fit only reason he didn't play as much was Roy benching him. But still you are very right that's not impressive in any way.

Still hope we keep on to him. And that he starts to stop beeing constantly injured.
[/quote]

There's another side to constantly being injured Kris and that's lack of match fitness - hence the lack of full games. By the time Agger finally gets match fit again he inevitably breaks a finger nail or something putting him out for another 4 months

 

[the_khl]

It really isn't.

I think Skrtel is mostly a liability especially when we are under pressure. It's obvious that when we're coasting 4-nil victories end Season without real pressure he looks better as do the rest of the lads.

Skrtel is a committed player with a good attitute but he's not got the needed class to be a week-in week-out starter with Liverpool FC.

In my opinion of course.

 

[the count]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343991#msg1343991 date=1307366099]
It really isn't.

I think Skrtel is mostly a liability especially when we are under pressure. It's obvious that when we're coasting 4-nil victories end Season without real pressure he looks better as do the rest of the lads.

Skrtel is a committed player with a good attitute but he's not got the needed class to be a week-in week-out starter with Liverpool FC.

In my opinion of course.
[/quote]and unfortunately, for totally different reasons, neither is Agger

 

[Sunny]

One thing worth saying about Skrtl is that under the stewardship of Kenny and Clarke he's become less of a liability and has been making far fewer mistakes. He's starting to look a better player

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343989#msg1343989 date=1307366050]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343979#msg1343979 date=1307365655]

He started fit only reason he didn't play as much was Roy benching him. But still you are very right that's not impressive in any way.

Still hope we keep on to him. And that he starts to stop beeing constantly injured.
[/quote]

There's another side to constantly being injured Kris and that's lack of match fitness - hence the lack of full games. By the time Agger finally gets match fit again he inevitably breaks a finger nail or something putting him out for another 4 months
[/quote]
Of course it is but he was match-fit start Season at least and was benched for the first 6-8 games. Or used as a LB if I'm not mistaken. As a sub.

Good ol Roy.

 

[Fabio]

TBF by not playing agger, Roy managed to keep him fit for surely his longest spell possible
😉

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

We need better than Skrtel and a player fitter than Agger. It's not a case of picking one to get rid of. We players that contribute more than both of them.

But Skrtel has contributed more, and hence he's going to be given more time than Agger.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343994#msg1343994 date=1307366199]
One thing worth saying about Skrtl is that under the stewardship of Kenny and Clarke he's become less of a liability and has been making far fewer mistakes. He's starting to look a better player
[/quote]
He has. But as I've already said he's not been put under anywhere near as much pressure as earlier on in the Season either.

Whenever under pressure you see the 'real' Skrtel.

Anyways this is turning into an argument I'll never win so I'm leaving it here. Just wanted to share the Agger news and hear your thoughts.

I've heard them, thank you. Don't particularly like them.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343995#msg1343995 date=1307366209]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343989#msg1343989 date=1307366050]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343979#msg1343979 date=1307365655]

He started fit only reason he didn't play as much was Roy benching him. But still you are very right that's not impressive in any way.

Still hope we keep on to him. And that he starts to stop beeing constantly injured.
[/quote]

There's another side to constantly being injured Kris and that's lack of match fitness - hence the lack of full games. By the time Agger finally gets match fit again he inevitably breaks a finger nail or something putting him out for another 4 months
[/quote]
Of course it is but he was match-fit start Season at least and was benched for the first 6-8 games. Or used as a LB if I'm not mistaken. As a sub.

Good ol Roy.
[/quote]

If he'd played he'd have probably gotten injured anyway, as he did eventually and who knows what state he was in anyway? He went away with Denmark not longer after and got injured, against the wishes of the club (not for the first time either).

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343995#msg1343995 date=1307366209]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1343989#msg1343989 date=1307366050]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343979#msg1343979 date=1307365655]

He started fit only reason he didn't play as much was Roy benching him. But still you are very right that's not impressive in any way.

Still hope we keep on to him. And that he starts to stop beeing constantly injured.
[/quote]

There's another side to constantly being injured Kris and that's lack of match fitness - hence the lack of full games. By the time Agger finally gets match fit again he inevitably breaks a finger nail or something putting him out for another 4 months
[/quote]
Of course it is but he was match-fit start Season at least and was benched for the first 6-8 games. Or used as a LB if I'm not mistaken. As a sub.

Good ol Roy.
[/quote]

He played the first game against Arsenal until he got concussion, got subbed and missed the next few games as a result! It's a reoccurring theme mate.

 

[Gary25]

Be sad to see Agger leave LFC, but as people have already said, he just doesn't play enough games to warrant keeping(no matter how he is).

£9 might just be too much for Kenny to turn down, and if he does go, it'll allow us to go all out for Phil Jones. Maybe another central defender too...Dann?

Another thing, i don't understand the criticism of Skrtel - he's a solid, no nonsense and committed player and has by and large been a good player for us since he joined.
Even Carragher and Gerrard have had several poor games in the last few seasons. It happens.

 

[Sunny]

Skrtl would foul people in stupid areas and was prone to one or two fuck ups a game. As I said though, there's been a notable improvement since Jan

 

[Richey]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344003#msg1344003 date=1307366387]


Anyways this is turning into an argument I'll never win so I'm leaving it here. Just wanted to share the Agger news and hear your thoughts.

I've heard them, thank you. Don't particularly like them.
[/quote]

What did you expect?!

Seriously though, I think the opinion of Agger that is shared by most is that he has the potential to be a very good player, and we have seen glimpses of this, but that is the problem - it has only been glimpses. Its a shame but IF we are offered that kind of money he has to go.

Say if we had been offered that kind of money (or even a few million less) for Harry Kewell in, say, 2006? Even though he had had a reasonably healthy season behind him (by his standards) - would you not have wanted us to have taken it?

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1344013#msg1344013 date=1307366835]
Skrtl would foul people in stupid areas and was prone to one or two fuck ups a game. As I said though, there's been a notable improvement since Jan
[/quote]

He's not perfect mate, but i don't think any players came out of Roy Hodgson's reign with any credit. Aside from Lucas perhaps.

As you say his performances have been better since Jan and that's down to Kenny and Steve Clarke's tactics, and Skrtel has really flourished as a result.

If our central defenders next seasons were Carragher, Skrtel, Dann and Jones would everyone be happy with that? I would.

 

[Sunny]

I really couldn't say as neither Jones or Dann are players I've seen much of.

 

[kingjulian]

Mark's stand on Agger has always been just as ridiculous as Khl's..only it was a diametrically opposite view.

I find it hard to understand that people can tolerate one form partisanship but not the other?

Agger is by a country mile better defender than Skrtel, but his history with injury means we should accept the bid and move on, I don't see why we are sitting here and ridiculing the KHL...

 

[Oncy]

I love Agger, he's one of my favourite players of the Rafa era, i love how much he loves the club, i love how much he geys stuck in and stands up for his team mates. I love his attitude and his charisma. I think hes a genuine world class ball playing centre half and it will break my heart to see him leave.

But i'd sell him regardless, because he cant stay uninjured, and nothing is more important for a team tham defensive stability. And the fact is (the underrated) Skrtel who may well be an inferior footballer is a much better option for our back 4 than Agger, taking into account the need for a settled partnership.

Sorry Daniel, if you could only have stayed fit for ONE season in the last 3 or 4 i would have defended you forever, it would be crazy to keep him and sell others.

 

[Sunny]

I don't think anyone is ridiculing KHL. I've said Agger is a good player and one I like but he just never plays enough. I think he's better player than Skrtl. If you could guarantee his fitness I'd not want him to go anywhere.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=45634.msg1344025#msg1344025 date=1307367673]
Mark's stand on Agger has always been just as ridiculous as Khl's..only it was a diametrically opposite view.

I find it hard to understand that people can tolerate one form partisanship but not the other?

Agger is by a country mile better defender than Skrtel, but his history with injury means we should accept the bid and move on, I don't see why we are sitting here and ridiculing the KHL...

[/quote]

There's no way mark's been as partisan as KHL about this. He's given Agger far more credit than KHL has ever allowed Skrtel.

On which subject BTW, Agger is not "by a country mile better" than Skrtel. That's just a reworded version of the KHL position.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=45634.msg1344025#msg1344025 date=1307367673]
Mark's stand on Agger has always been just as ridiculous as Khl's..only it was a diametrically opposite view.

[/quote]

It's not ridiculous. Read my posts again, where have I taken a polar view? I like Agger and rate him highly, the problem is Kris' opinion is always going to tainted because Agger is Danish and the stance he's taking probably wouldn't be the case if it was a non-Danish player (see Bendtner for similar).

I think KHL exaggerates his qualities while playing down his less desirable attributes (injury, attitude) and knocking Skrtel as some means to big up Agger's ability. Find where I said I don't rate him. I think it's pointless keeping hold of him because of his injury record (at that sort of price anyway) but if someone could guarantee his fitness I'd want us to keep hold of him because he can be a top quality player.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1344029#msg1344029 date=1307367825]
I don't think anyone is ridiculing KHL. I've said Agger is a good player and one I like but he just never plays enough. I think he's better player than Skrtl. If you could guarantee his fitness I'd not want him to go anywhere.
[/quote]

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45634.msg1344029#msg1344029 date=1307367825]
I don't think anyone is ridiculing KHL. I've said Agger is a good player and one I like but he just never plays enough. I think he's better player than Skrtl. If you could guarantee his fitness I'd not want him to go anywhere.
[/quote]

Of course they're not, but it's pretty hard to not get irritated sometimes when there's obvious bias.