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ECHO: Agger's off to Leverkusen

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45634.msg1344535#msg1344535 date=1307434477]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45634.msg1344530#msg1344530 date=1307434358]
Agger leaving and Skrtels qualities are two separate debates.

Agger can leave. We can buy a new CB. Skrtel can drop to the bench.

It's that easy.
[/quote]I think thats precisely the point Ken. Every single poster bar ONE would rather have the reliable Skrtel on the bench, than the oft injured Agger, who lets be honest would moan as soon as he is fit that he should be in the team.
Its cringeworthy reading this thread.
[/quote]
Cringe away mate.

Agger's injured and Skrtel's not good enough. Selling both is probably a bit risky and even though Agger would STILL fetch the biggest fee I'd sell the one who's not got the acquired quality in the long run.

And as we still desperately need a new CB, strong in the air-like, I see no reason in holding on to Skrtel who'd be mostly a liability if only used as back-up/sub. And as someone's already pointed out would he accept to not play suddenly?

Maybe I've got it all wrong but that's how I'd prefer it done.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344568#msg1344568 date=1307435313]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45634.msg1344535#msg1344535 date=1307434477]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45634.msg1344530#msg1344530 date=1307434358]
Agger leaving and Skrtels qualities are two separate debates.

Agger can leave. We can buy a new CB. Skrtel can drop to the bench.

It's that easy.
[/quote]I think thats precisely the point Ken. Every single poster bar ONE would rather have the reliable Skrtel on the bench, than the oft injured Agger, who lets be honest would moan as soon as he is fit that he should be in the team.
Its cringeworthy reading this thread.
[/quote]
Cringe away mate.

Agger's injured and Skrtel's not good enough. Selling both is probably a bit risky and even though Agger would STILL fetch the biggest fee I'd sell the one who's not got the acquired quality in the long run.

And as we still desperately need a new CB, strong in the air-like, I see no reason in holding on to Skrtel who'd be mostly a liability if only used as back-up/sub. And as someone's already pointed out would he accept to not play suddenly?

Maybe I've got it all wrong but that's how I'd prefer it done.
[/quote]Alright, yes shusssh now.
Everybody, EVERYBODY on the interweb knows your opinion on this.
Youre sure about it, so stop defending yourself.
Ok?
OK.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344568#msg1344568 date=1307435313]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45634.msg1344535#msg1344535 date=1307434477]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45634.msg1344530#msg1344530 date=1307434358]
Agger leaving and Skrtels qualities are two separate debates.

Agger can leave. We can buy a new CB. Skrtel can drop to the bench.

It's that easy.
[/quote]I think thats precisely the point Ken. Every single poster bar ONE would rather have the reliable Skrtel on the bench, than the oft injured Agger, who lets be honest would moan as soon as he is fit that he should be in the team.
Its cringeworthy reading this thread.
[/quote]
Cringe away mate.

Agger's injured and Skrtel's not good enough. Selling both is probably a bit risky and even though Agger would STILL fetch the biggest fee I'd sell the one who's not got the acquired quality in the long run.

And as we still desperately need a new CB, strong in the air-like, I see no reason in holding on to Skrtel who'd be mostly a liability if only used as back-up/sub. And as someone's already pointed out would he accept to not play suddenly?

Maybe I've got it all wrong but that's how I'd prefer it done.
[/quote]

This is the last post I'm going to make on it, if you'd prefer to bank on a unreliable injury prone centre back and a kid who's never played there at senior level, then THAT is risk.

Anyways.. I don't hate anyone because of football soft arse, it's all good banter x (Got to do something during the close season!)
 
Skrtel was very good in the second half of the season. Sure, we could do with an alternative, but I think his flaws are somewhat exaggerated.

It's just same the greek is the only defender we have who can head it.
 
Skrtel would fetch a far higher fee than Agger, on account of the fact he can actually get on the pitch.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=45634.msg1344573#msg1344573 date=1307435445]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344568#msg1344568 date=1307435313]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45634.msg1344535#msg1344535 date=1307434477]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45634.msg1344530#msg1344530 date=1307434358]
Agger leaving and Skrtels qualities are two separate debates.

Agger can leave. We can buy a new CB. Skrtel can drop to the bench.

It's that easy.
[/quote]I think thats precisely the point Ken. Every single poster bar ONE would rather have the reliable Skrtel on the bench, than the oft injured Agger, who lets be honest would moan as soon as he is fit that he should be in the team.
Its cringeworthy reading this thread.
[/quote]
Cringe away mate.

Agger's injured and Skrtel's not good enough. Selling both is probably a bit risky and even though Agger would STILL fetch the biggest fee I'd sell the one who's not got the acquired quality in the long run.

And as we still desperately need a new CB, strong in the air-like, I see no reason in holding on to Skrtel who'd be mostly a liability if only used as back-up/sub. And as someone's already pointed out would he accept to not play suddenly?

Maybe I've got it all wrong but that's how I'd prefer it done.
[/quote]

This is the last post I'm going to make on it, if you'd prefer to bank on a unreliable injury prone centre back and a kid who's never played there at senior level, then THAT is risk.

Anyways.. I don't hate anyone because of football soft arse, it's all good banter x (Got to do something during the close season!)
[/quote]

Well, no. He's talking about bringing in a quality replacement of Skrtel. Instead of Agger.
Is that so over the top?
 
34 year old Carragher, Medical treatment table, Martin Kelly, quality replacement for Skrtel.

If you think that's enough CB cover for the next campaign then it's not OTT at all
 
It's not over the top. It's just not the most logical decision to make - and khl has already admitted he's in no small part being influenced by patriotism and man love for Agger.

The anti-squad player profile:

1. Injury prone.
2. Moans about being on the bench.

Not what you want, is it?
 
Out of curiosity, and I genuinely can't remember, did Agger publically moan during Rafa's reign when he was benched?
I certainly remember him moaning when he was either benched or played at left back under Hodgeson (both about being benched and his tactics).
 
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=45634.msg1344795#msg1344795 date=1307448324]
Out of curiosity, and I genuinely can't remember, did Agger publically moan during Rafa's reign when he was benched?
I certainly remember him moaning when he was either benched or played at left back under Hodgeson (both about being benched and his tactics).

[/quote]

Yes

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/02/13/daniel-agger-my-position-at-liverpool-becoming-untenable-92534-22926512/
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=45634.msg1344802#msg1344802 date=1307448700]
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=45634.msg1344795#msg1344795 date=1307448324]
Out of curiosity, and I genuinely can't remember, did Agger publically moan during Rafa's reign when he was benched?
I certainly remember him moaning when he was either benched or played at left back under Hodgeson (both about being benched and his tactics).

[/quote]

Yes

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/02/13/daniel-agger-my-position-at-liverpool-becoming-untenable-92534-22926512/
[/quote]

Sell.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344511#msg1344511 date=1307433603]
[quote author=cobrastatus link=topic=45634.msg1344323#msg1344323 date=1307391071]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343968#msg1343968 date=1307365343]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45634.msg1343962#msg1343962 date=1307365211]
skrtel played every league game this season and didn't do that badly

he's prone to a mistake but he's a no nonsense defender. i don't get why he's not good enough
[/quote]
Look this is why we have got a debate on the forum alright. One thinks player Y is good whereas another thinks he's not good enough. Skrtel is not in any way a convincing defender IMO and there's no real key strength or ability in him either. Fair enough if you disagree mate that's how I see it.

Agger or no Agger.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you'd hope that eventually, one side or the other would realize they are wrong and change their views. That's the whole point of debating. That doesn't seem to be happening here with you. I mean it's quite literally you vs. the forum. Wake up man, when EVERYONE ELSE is on the other side, you have to start asking yourself if you're wrong.

You're wrong, by the way.
[/quote]
I don't think Skrtel is good enough to hold down a place in a top-tuned Liverpool site. This has got nothing to do with Agger, Carra, Thatcher or the fact the moon's not made of cheese.

If you guys believe so fair enough. I'm convinced he's not got what it takes to compete at the top level based on the +80 games I've seen him play.

I don't care how many Internet-warriors like yourself on 6CM that believes any different. That's how I see it. If I were in charge he was on his way out if I had the money to buy a strong, commanding presence instead of course.
[/quote]

Skrtel played with Carra for the vasy majority of our games in the 2008-2009 season when we finished 2nd and should have won it.

Was that not a top-tuned Liverpool side?
 
He wanted to pass the ball under Roy "Tasting success at WBA" Hodgson.

Roy wanted him to take shots from his own 18 yard line - he had heard Agger was good on the ball, and felt this could be the solution to scoring while remaining "toight" at the back.
 
Totally ambivalent. If he stays, good (so long as we get another CB in), he's a good player but made of glass, if he goes ..... good, we can get someone just as good and not made of glass.
 
The quality he brings to the side will be hard to replace. We do need a injury free CB - that's the easy part. Finding someone as good as Agger is going to be difficult. He's exactly the level of player we have to be aspiring to.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344538#msg1344538 date=1307434623]
[quote author=cobrastatus link=topic=45634.msg1344523#msg1344523 date=1307434200]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1344511#msg1344511 date=1307433603]
[quote author=cobrastatus link=topic=45634.msg1344323#msg1344323 date=1307391071]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1343968#msg1343968 date=1307365343]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45634.msg1343962#msg1343962 date=1307365211]
skrtel played every league game this season and didn't do that badly

he's prone to a mistake but he's a no nonsense defender. i don't get why he's not good enough
[/quote]
Look this is why we have got a debate on the forum alright. One thinks player Y is good whereas another thinks he's not good enough. Skrtel is not in any way a convincing defender IMO and there's no real key strength or ability in him either. Fair enough if you disagree mate that's how I see it.

Agger or no Agger.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you'd hope that eventually, one side or the other would realize they are wrong and change their views. That's the whole point of debating. That doesn't seem to be happening here with you. I mean it's quite literally you vs. the forum. Wake up man, when EVERYONE ELSE is on the other side, you have to start asking yourself if you're wrong.

You're wrong, by the way.
[/quote]
I don't think Skrtel is good enough to hold down a place in a top-tuned Liverpool site. This has got nothing to do with Agger, Carra, Thatcher or the fact the moon's not made of cheese.

If you guys believe so fair enough. I'm convinced he's not got what it takes to compete at the top level based on the +80 games I've seen him play.

I don't care how many Internet-warriors like yourself on 6CM that believes any different. That's how I see it. If I were in charge he was on his way out if I had the money to buy a strong, commanding presence instead of course.
[/quote]

Forgive me, I quoted the wrong part of your post. I was addressing your "debate" point specifically, not anything related to Skrtel. I don't really give a single fuck if we keep Skrtel this season or not, he improved greatly and if he stays, I'm fine with it.

My point was more that nearly everyone on the forum realizes that Agger's injury record cannot be overcome, and we don't need another year to see that. The evidence is pretty clear. Since he's Danish, you can't seem to grasp the fact that he's a permanent sicknote, and you have some sort of attachment to him that doesn't allow you to see this. I'm just saying, when there are so many people on one side of the equation who think you're wrong, you have to ask yourself if you are and change your views accordingly.

If we get offered anything in the region of 10m pounds for him it's a steal and we should bite their hands off. Sorry for the confusion.
[/quote]
I've got a big heart for Agger and that's obviously influencing my stance. I'm not hiding that.

Maybe you are all right, and he'll never leave his injuries behind him but recent developments, him getting stronger than ever etc., suggests that he's at least willing to give it a last go with everything he's got. He knows the clock is ticking as well.

I hope Kenny is willing to give him a Season to prove himself. If it's once again mared by injuries then sell.
[/quote]

If he stayed for another season and went through it plagues by injuries AGAIN (which let's face it, he will) - then there'll be nothing to "sell" because nobody will buy him.

Right now we're getting 9M for him, which is incredible given his record.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45634.msg1344027#msg1344027 date=1307367783]
I love Agger, he's one of my favourite players of the Rafa era, i love how much he loves the club, i love how much he geys stuck in and stands up for his team mates. I love his attitude and his charisma. I think hes a genuine world class ball playing centre half and it will break my heart to see him leave.

But i'd sell him regardless, because he cant stay uninjured, and nothing is more important for a team tham defensive stability. And the fact is (the underrated) Skrtel who may well be an inferior footballer is a much better option for our back 4 than Agger, taking into account the need for a settled partnership.

Sorry Daniel, if you could only have stayed fit for ONE season in the last 3 or 4 i would have defended you forever, it would be crazy to keep him and sell others.
[/quote]

In a well-drilled defensive team, defensive stability is actually not that important. Mourinho is one manager who likes to shuffle the CB pairings, at Inter he was freely rotating between all of his available central defenders without any noticeable negative effect. He still does it with Real to some degree, with Sergio Ramos alternating between RB and CB. Don't think Kenny is that kind of coach though, he probably likes a stable back 4.

Barca's back 4 is also not particularly stable. And those 2 teams are the CL winners in the past 3 years.
 
I think KHL is entitled to his opinion. Just because he is in the minority, doesn't mean he is biased.
 
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=45634.msg1345333#msg1345333 date=1307516120]
I think KHL is entitled to his opinion. Just because he is in the minority, doesn't mean he is biased.
[/quote]

I think it's fair to say that if you are the only member of this forum that thinks something, and everyone else disagrees with you - that you're likely to be wrong.

Especially if you do it everytime re the same player.

No?
 
Everyone thinks we should sell Agger for £9M then?

Fair does. I can understand that because of his injury-record but I'm still hopeful he'll get another chance. 'Wrong' or not.

I've said my piece and should Agger somehow incredibly going to make it a whole Season here without injuries playing brilliantly you'll never see the end of this thread. I'll even dump it in you dreams. Also the good ones.

When she/he moves in on you, and you're getting all fired up and ready for some steamy wet dreamy-action, WOOP there it is. In your face. Out of nowhere like shat from a seagull.

The threat, that is. And it's not dirty at all. That's off. Sorry.

*Apologies for the weird analogy, early morn.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1345340#msg1345340 date=1307517664]
Everyone thinks we should sell Agger for £9M then?

Fair does. I can understand that because of his injury-record but I'm still hopeful he'll get another chance. 'Wrong' or not.

I've said my piece and should Agger somehow incredibly going to make it a whole Season here without injuries playing brilliantly you'll never see the end of this thread. I'll even dump it in you dreams. Also the good ones.

When she/he moves in on you, and you're getting all fired up and ready for some steamy wet dreamy-action, WOOP there it is. In your face. Out of nowhere like shat from a seagull.

The threat, that is. And it's not dirty at all. That's off. Sorry.

*Apologies for the weird analogy, early morn.

[/quote]

for the record, KHL, the reason I think agger should be fucked off is purely down to his injuries and nothing to do with his quality, I think agger is a quality player and exactly the type of centre back we need in our back line but we also need individuals we can rely on. this is also the reason I think aurelio should be fucked off now even though I think and have always thought he is a quality player.
 
I know mate, I actually think that's the most common stance on here.

I'm just allowing myself to be 'wrong' in terms of not wanting the same as anyone else in this particular case 🙂
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45634.msg1345343#msg1345343 date=1307518094]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1345340#msg1345340 date=1307517664]
Everyone thinks we should sell Agger for £9M then?

Fair does. I can understand that because of his injury-record but I'm still hopeful he'll get another chance. 'Wrong' or not.

I've said my piece and should Agger somehow incredibly going to make it a whole Season here without injuries playing brilliantly you'll never see the end of this thread. I'll even dump it in you dreams. Also the good ones.

When she/he moves in on you, and you're getting all fired up and ready for some steamy wet dreamy-action, WOOP there it is. In your face. Out of nowhere like shat from a seagull.

The threat, that is. And it's not dirty at all. That's off. Sorry.

*Apologies for the weird analogy, early morn.

[/quote]

for the record, KHL, the reason I think agger should be fucked off is purely down to his injuries and nothing to do with his quality, I think agger is a quality player and exactly the type of centre back we need in our back line but we also need individuals we can rely on. this is also the reason I think aurelio should be fucked off now even though I think and have always thought he is a quality player.


[/quote]I'll go with that Neil
 
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=45634.msg1345329#msg1345329 date=1307514739]
Barca's back 4 is also not particularly stable. And those 2 teams are the CL winners in the past 3 years.
[/quote]

Alves, Pique and Puyol all start when fit. Abidal too probably for the big games.

They just seem to have suffered quite a bit with injuries to defenders over the last few years.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=45634.msg1345340#msg1345340 date=1307517664]
Everyone thinks we should sell Agger for £9M then?

Fair does. I can understand that because of his injury-record but I'm still hopeful he'll get another chance. 'Wrong' or not.

I've said my piece and should Agger somehow incredibly going to make it a whole Season here without injuries playing brilliantly you'll never see the end of this thread. I'll even dump it in you dreams. Also the good ones.

When she/he moves in on you, and you're getting all fired up and ready for some steamy wet dreamy-action, WOOP there it is. In your face. Out of nowhere like shat from a seagull.

The threat, that is. And it's not dirty at all. That's off. Sorry.

*Apologies for the weird analogy, early morn.

[/quote]

i'm a slight dissenting voice, mate, in that i don't necessarily think £9m is 'snap their hand off' money for him. yeah, i get that he's injury-prone, and probably always will be, but he's also an excellent player who'd be worth maybe double that without his fitness problems, so as i see it we're already taking a £9m hit on him for those problems - it's built into the price. having said that, i'm broadly in agreement that his injuries are just too much hassle and that we should reluctantly cash in if get a good offer: before the window opened i was thinking of £10m as an acceptable price, so tbf i'd probably take the £9m if it's offered.

i don't really think it's a brilliant offer, though, in the way £7m for ngog is.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45634.msg1345343#msg1345343 date=1307518094]
for the record, KHL, the reason I think agger should be fucked off is purely down to his injuries and nothing to do with his quality, I think agger is a quality player and exactly the type of centre back we need in our back line but we also need individuals we can rely on. this is also the reason I think aurelio should be fucked off now even though I think and have always thought he is a quality player.


[/quote]

I think this is about the crux of it. There's no room for sentiment with players who are out as often as they are, especially when other teams are still willing to pay a good fee for them, we've been stung too many times hoping players will put their injuries behind them only to end up putting ourselves in a position where we've invested alot of money in the player and left it too late to get a reasonable fee.
 
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