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Liverpool related transfer speculation

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Does withholding Doak and Elliott from sale this season cause us to fall foul of the rules for this and the next 2 seasons?

If not, then could we not extend their contracts and sell them one season later, which should then help provide some relief for the 28/29 season? For the players, it gives them the chance to improve their value and potentially attract a higher level of club/wage than their current suitors, and maybe also a (slim) chance of changing the coach's mind about retaining them.

Assuming the players and their agents are amenable to this. We'll also be betting and hoping they stay fit and do better than last season.
 
I think they may have been building up the headroom to do this for the last couple of years. Maybe the extra ticket income from expanded Anfield helps with that?

Aren't allowed losses higher if covered by owners equity? Maybe FSG plan to plough in £50m a year instead of spending it on transfers?
You're allowed €60m if covered by equity, but I seem to recall that's a one-off thing, not something you can do year in, year out.
We do have the capacity to do that as the Dynasty money was loaned to the club, so it could easily be converted to equity (without having to actually put any cash in).
 
Does withholding Doak and Elliott from sale this season cause us to fall foul of the rules for this and the next 2 seasons?

If not, then could we not extend their contracts and sell them one season later, which should then help provide some relief for the 28/29 season? For the players, it gives them the chance to improve their value and potentially attract a higher level of club/wage than their current suitors, and maybe also a (slim) chance of changing the coach's mind about retaining them.

Assuming the players and their agents are amenable to this. We'll also be betting and hoping they stay fit and do better than last season.
Theoretically yes, but I think Doak would be at peak value this year. Talk of £25m which I think is nuts. The more he plays (or the more he's injured) the less likely we are to get that.
We could hold on to Harvey (and I think he would at least hold his value) but I'd expect US to want him to go out on loan as he's not going to play much if he stays (plus we'd have his wages to cover) and I'd expect HIM to want to leave permanently if he's going to go somewhere else. Again, I think he goes this summer.
But we don't need the profits on those guys this year and if we sell next (calendar) year then it helps with our year 4 FFP issue (but not year 5).
 
Theoretically yes, but I think Doak would be at peak value this year. Talk of £25m which I think is nuts. The more he plays (or the more he's injured) the less likely we are to get that.
We could hold on to Harvey (and I think he would at least hold his value) but I'd expect US to want him to go out on loan as he's not going to play much if he stays (plus we'd have his wages to cover) and I'd expect HIM to want to leave permanently if he's going to go somewhere else. Again, I think he goes this summer.
But we don't need the profits on those guys this year and if we sell next (calendar) year then it helps with our year 4 FFP issue (but not year 5).
Then we could also do the loan with obligation to buy thing that I've seen some clubs do, right?
 
All in all it sounds like we shouldn’t buy Isak this summer. Honestly excited to see what wirtz, kerkez, frimpong, and ekitike bring to us. Unless FSG know that the FFP guys are full of shit (quite possible given the delays in the 115 case) we don’t need that headache. We already have an amazing squad.
 
So @Beamrider - financially it makes sense to with refer buying Isak to next year OR defer selling some players for a year so that their sales benefit can be added in further down the track AND then we have to rely on balancing any other or future purchases on additional sales - and that’s if the rules stay as they are?

Would FSG selling the club, given that this influx of players and hopefully success, would likely have the clubs value as high as it’s ever going to be, be a way of also solving the problem?

Not that I think that selling the club would be a great idea, because at the price FSG would want, we’re not going to like the likely buyers.
 
So @Beamrider - financially it makes sense to with refer buying Isak to next year OR defer selling some players for a year so that their sales benefit can be added in further down the track AND then we have to rely on balancing any other or future purchases on additional sales - and that’s if the rules stay as they are?

Would FSG selling the club, given that this influx of players and hopefully success, would likely have the clubs value as high as it’s ever going to be, be a way of also solving the problem?

Not that I think that selling the club would be a great idea, because at the price FSG would want, we’re not going to like the likely buyers.
Point 1 - yes. My opinion remains that (financially speaking) we should have bought EITHER Ekitike or Isak, not both. Both stretches us too far.
Sale of club wouldn't help, unless the new owners are more open to injecting new equity and giving us more FFP wriggle room (I don't think this would be the case, and in practice FSG can just capitalise some of the Dynasty loan if and when needed, which I think they will). I also think that new owners tend to believe they need to give the fans some new shiny things, which leads to even more spending we can't afford.
 
Alright then @Beamrider lets get down to numbers.

Let’s assume we were to sign Isak - what’s the number is sales we need to achieve to offset - and let’s assume we make those sales as late as possible?

And if we make more purchases - what do we need to covrr we.

Assume old player contract doesn’t get renewed (ie Mo & Virg leave on a free on contract end).

I’ll let you figure out who gets a pay increase and the ramifications.

Kids sold,, even at high value don’t save money on wages.

What’s the number - what die we need - £50m net profit on sales consistently or what?
 
The hospitality season prices have gone up something stupid for next year. Dunno if that even touches the sides but for example, the boxes in the KD have gone up from 95k to 145k
I'm not surprised, the amount of those boxes and hospitality tix that get paid for and left empty is ridiculous, people have more money than sense.
 
Alright then @Beamrider lets get down to numbers.

Let’s assume we were to sign Isak - what’s the number is sales we need to achieve to offset - and let’s assume we make those sales as late as possible?

And if we make more purchases - what do we need to covrr we.

Assume old player contract doesn’t get renewed (ie Mo & Virg leave on a free on contract end).

I’ll let you figure out who gets a pay increase and the ramifications.

Kids sold,, even at high value don’t save money on wages.

What’s the number - what die we need - £50m net profit on sales consistently or what?
Looking at in in totality:
In years 4 and 5 we've added £300m in costs (over the 3-year FFP reporting period).
We need to cover that.
Some of it will come from revenue growth. How much? Who knows.
Some if it will come from player sales. How much do we get for those players, what are their wages, what is the amortisation saved? Who knows.
Those extra purchase of yours to replace the guys we sell? Who? How much? How long is your piece of string?
Sorry, but future trading is not an exact science. I can't give you numbers. And who knows what the transfer market looks like then?

In terms of timing, no sales before year 3 (2027-28) if they're to count for years 4 and 5.

However, if we look at Isak in isolation, we can be (a little) more specific. He adds costs of (at least):

Year 4 (three year count back): £140m (£62m wages, £78m amortisation)
Year 5 £133m (£55m wages, £78m amortisation)

So you need to raise £140m. Some of that will come from wage savings / amortisation (but if you make the sales in year 4 you only save 1 year of costs in the year 4 FFP numbers, 2 years of costs in year 5 FFP numbers, so most of the saving needs to come from profit on sale).

Like I say, it's not an exact science, but it is a huge number to cover off. In context, with all of our prospective sales this summer, we should be at about £190-200m, but that's after a clear-out.

If you want to look at it as what do we need to raise every summer, then yeah, it's not far off your £50m for Isak alone, but it's more like £100m for the total (net) summer spend. Historically we've tended to raise £30-40m each summer (average of £32.5m for the last 6 published sets of accounts - this ignores Coutinho who was 7 years back, obviously distorts things but as we know Barca still haven't paid us in full anyway).
 
Not sure how that adds up. If it does, Hughes and Edwards will bid for Rodrygo. If the tweets are correct he only wants Liverpool, the player only says that, if he knows that new prospective club wants him

View: https://x.com/PiangShankly/status/1950156811534741743

It's correct. My estimates on deals done so far (including Lucho):

Profit on sales £106m
Net amortisation added -£35m
Net wages added -£13m

Total net profit 2025-26 = £58m

BUT, net costs added in future years:

2026-27 - £64m
2027-28 - £77m
2028-29 - £68m
2029-30 - £59m
 
Looking at in in totality:
In years 4 and 5 we've added £300m in costs (over the 3-year FFP reporting period).
We need to cover that.
Some of it will come from revenue growth. How much? Who knows.
Some if it will come from player sales. How much do we get for those players, what are their wages, what is the amortisation saved? Who knows.
Those extra purchase of yours to replace the guys we sell? Who? How much? How long is your piece of string?
Sorry, but future trading is not an exact science. I can't give you numbers. And who knows what the transfer market looks like then?

In terms of timing, no sales before year 3 (2027-28) if they're to count for years 4 and 5.

However, if we look at Isak in isolation, we can be (a little) more specific. He adds costs of (at least):

Year 4 (three year count back): £140m (£62m wages, £78m amortisation)
Year 5 £133m (£55m wages, £78m amortisation)

So you need to raise £140m. Some of that will come from wage savings / amortisation (but if you make the sales in year 4 you only save 1 year of costs in the year 4 FFP numbers, 2 years of costs in year 5 FFP numbers, so most of the saving needs to come from profit on sale).

Like I say, it's not an exact science, but it is a huge number to cover off. In context, with all of our prospective sales this summer, we should be at about £190-200m, but that's after a clear-out.

If you want to look at it as what do we need to raise every summer, then yeah, it's not far off your £50m for Isak alone, but it's more like £100m for the total (net) summer spend. Historically we've tended to raise £30-40m each summer (average of £32.5m for the last 6 published sets of accounts - this ignores Coutinho who was 7 years back, obviously distorts things but as we know Barca still haven't paid us in full anyway).
Isak is 78M amortisation per year up to Year 5?? Doesn't that imply a value of 390M?
 
+ Will Wright. Seems like we pipped Arsenal for him.
Supposedly hot shit.
Never seen him play.
Know nothing about him.

Read that it’s seen as a big coup in youth/recruitment circles and that he’ll play for the u21s this season.

Two 16 year olds made their debut in the FA cup last season. Rio and Will Wright.
 
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