Sack him

[davud graham]

There's no way he'll be sacked in January unless we lose all the games between now and then. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost or drew most of them though if he continues to play players who are out of form (balotelli , Lovren , Johnson and maybe Henderson) , players who are struggling with the position they are asked to play (gerrard) and continually ignoring players that at least deserve a chance in the team for league games (Lucas, Lallana , Borini and possibly Toure ).
His insistence of sticking with gerrard in the deep midfield position (i'm not describing his position as defensive midfielder as defensive players make tackles and track opposition runs) is looking like he's too stubborn to accept that it's not working at the moment.
Also playing 1 up front isn't working at all and the times we have played better or looked more threatening in games has mostly been when we have had 2 players up front. Not that any of our strikers look like a serious goal threat but being isolated hasn't helped whoever has played up front on his own and at least gives the opposition an extra player to mark..
I don't like that he keeps harping on about we'll be better when the injured players are back. We miss sturridge obviously but that doesn't explain why the defence and midfield have been so poor. Sakho and Flanagan have been missing but he bought (or got in on loan) players to play in their positions so that's no real excuse.
Sometimes you don't get the results that your performances deserve but i don't think that's the case this season. There's not many games i can think of when we failed to get a good result that we came away thinking we were unlucky ( maybe the 2nd half against Hull) whereas there have been several games when the luck has definitely gone for us ( Southampton., West Brom and QPR).
Results always dictate how long a manager stays at a club and if he can't get results even when Sturrisge is fit then the pressure willl be even worse. I hope that everything clicks into place and we start playing well and getting results but it's hard to keep positive when things have been so poor.

 

[Best Believe It]

His aircraft analogy still seems relevant. When injuries and a slump in form happens between transfer windows, it's easy for any manager to look like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Behind the scenes they're probably trying all kinds of things but nowadays there are no reserve games for second choices, few breaks for work on the training pitch and no respite from social media. You need luck as well as skill to get out of these periods, and a bit of faith from the owners and the fans.

Yep. We've had a catalogue of problems/issues to deal with this season:

• Deflation after missing out on the title and (for England players) a poor world cup
• Loss of Suarez and the psychological effect this would have on the team
• Need to alter style of play post-Suarez
• Failure to sign a big name to 'replace' Suarez
• Injuries to Sturridge
• Inability of Lovren to handle the pressure of playing for Liverpool

I don't think any of these are the fault of Brendan or the coaching staff. The manager has done himself no favours in how he's reacted to this - I don't believe Balotelli was signed against his will, but his attempts to alter the play to accommodate Mario have failed, and his persistance with Lovren has also failed. He's not reacted well to some players being out of form, and he's struggling to cope with the increased number of games and reduced lack of coaching time, as well as rotating in an effective manner.

He would have still had the problems of rotation and lack of coaching had we not had the problems in the summer, but he could have had a spine of the squad in form and to be relied upon to bring the other players through, and he's not had that. And now we're in a bit of a deeper mess because some of the senior players are showing that when the chips are really down they can't necessarily be relied upon.

 

[Buddha]

He'll be rightly given a good more time than Redninja suggests - we're not Spurs for fucks sake.

My one gripe with Rodgers this season is his stubborn insistence on playing one up front with a player obviously not suited to the system. That and his continuation with Gerrard in a role that he's really struggling with, meaning we're being walked through in midfield.

Still, he has my faith to put things right given what's he's achieved in turning this club around and previously implementing a clear stye of attacking play.

 

[Fox]

He deserves to be a long term manager. We will finish in top 4 again and I don't want to keep sacking managers. It hasn't helped Spurs has it.

Give him a few more years to build.

 

[6TimesaRed]

There's no way he'll be sacked in January unless we lose all the games between now and then. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost or drew most of them though if he continues to play players who are out of form (balotelli , Lovren , Johnson and maybe Henderson) , players who are struggling with the position they are asked to play (gerrard) and continually ignoring players that at least deserve a chance in the team for league games (Lucas, Lallana , Borini and possibly Toure ).
His insistence of sticking with gerrard in the deep midfield position (i'm not describing his position as defensive midfielder as defensive players make tackles and track opposition runs) is looking like he's too stubborn to accept that it's not working at the moment.
Also playing 1 up front isn't working at all and the times we have played better or looked more threatening in games has mostly been when we have had 2 players up front. Not that any of our strikers look like a serious goal threat but being isolated hasn't helped whoever has played up front on his own and at least gives the opposition an extra player to mark..
I don't like that he keeps harping on about we'll be better when the injured players are back. We miss sturridge obviously but that doesn't explain why the defence and midfield have been so poor. Sakho and Flanagan have been missing but he bought (or got in on loan) players to play in their positions so that's no real excuse.
Sometimes you don't get the results that your performances deserve but i don't think that's the case this season. There's not many games i can think of when we failed to get a good result that we came away thinking we were unlucky ( maybe the 2nd half against Hull) whereas there have been several games when the luck has definitely gone for us ( Southampton., West Brom and QPR).
Results always dictate how long a manager stays at a club and if he can't get results even when Sturrisge is fit then the pressure willl be even worse. I hope that everything clicks into place and we start playing well and getting results but it's hard to keep positive when things have been so poor.

You don't post often.. but that is an excellent post..

I do think however if result do not improve by January.. he will be gone.. There is no way the board will trust him with the January Transfer Budget if he fails to get the current crop to click.

Sadly this is a results buisness we are in... I hope he proves me wrong though..

 

[mark1975]

It was more Suarez that brought us closer to the title last year than Rodgers.. Suarez got us out of jail with our dodgy defense down to Rodgers tactics on numerous occasions. His ability to lift the team on the field was 2nd to none

This year without Suarez, Rodgers tactics have been found out

He's not just "without Suarez", he's without another 20+ goals striker. He fucked up over Mario, but he's been hugely unfortunate over losing two big goalscorers, any side would struggle. I'm not of the belief that Sturridge will cure all of our woes, it does run deeper than that, but he would have helped get us more points. Pretending it isn't a factor is pathetic, as is saying it was solely down to Suarez how well we did last season. Rodgers got his best season out of him and we were a great attacking "side", not a one man team. The history rewriting here is ridiculous.

 

[Silver Sean]

What an utterly ridiculous thread. More fool me, I guess, for wasting 6 crazy minutes of my life on it that I'll never get back.

 

[6TimesaRed]

He's not just "without Suarez", he's without another 20+ goal striker. He fucked up over Mario, but he's been hugely unfortunate over losing two big goalscorers, any side would struggle. I'm not of the belief that Sturridge will cure all of our woes, it does run deeper than that, but he would have helped get us more points. Pretending it isn't a factor is pathetic, as is saying it was solely down to Suarez how well we did last season. Rodgers got his best season out of him and we were a great attacking "side", not a one man team. The history rewriting here is ridiculous.

Evidence suggests we where very much a one man team last season. His presence lifted the team.. The team had belief we could win at any cost, because we had a worldy that could create anything out of nothing.. It wasn't just his Goals and assists, but his work rate and determination.. It lifted the whole team..

Arguably young players like Sterling came to the fore because of Suarez.. To have a player like that in the team, you are always in with a chance.

People argue Suarez never performed in big games. Oh but he did... he was a marked man against better defenders..

That happening freed up space for other players like Sterling and Sturridge

I agree he has been unfortunate of losing Sturridge to injury, though if your are going to replace Worldy with the likes of Lambert and Balotelli your are asking for trouble..

 

[mark1975]

You don't post often.. but that is an excellent post..

I do think however if result do not improve by January.. he will be gone.. There is no way the board will trust him with the January Transfer Budget if he fails to get the current crop to click.

Sadly this is a results buisness we are in... I hope he proves me wrong though..

Not trusting him with money and sacking him are mutually exclusive. He deserves time, so does his signings, he also deserves to fall on his own sword should he fuck up. No club should invest £100m in players and then get trigger happy about it 5 months in, it's retarded, destructive thinking. Most of them are longterm investments.

 

[Tinto]

Evidence suggests we where very much a one man team last season. His presence lifted the team.. The team had belief we could win at any cost, because we had a worldy that could create anything out of nothing.. It wasn't just his Goals and assists, but his work rate and determination.. It lifted the whole team..

Arguably young players like Sterling came to the fore because of Suarez.. To have a player like that in the team, you are always in with a chance.

People argue Suarez never performed in big games. Oh but he did... he was a marked man against better defenders..

That happening freed up space for other players like Sterling and Sturridge

How come we weren't challenging for the league every season Suarez was with us then if last season was just down to him?

We're kind of where we are in the table for the majority of the time we had him at the club.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Not trusting him with money and sacking him are mutually exclusive. He deserves time, so does his signings, he also deserves to fall on his own sword should he fuck up. No club should invest £100m in players and then get trigger happy about it 5 months in, it's retarded, destructive thinking. Most of them are longterm investments.

What you are saying is correct.. But there is a bigger picture here.. It's a results buisness.. There is plenty at stake.. 60 million Champions League kitty for next season for one, sponsorship deals to fund to help with funding Stadium Expansion another. The amount we receive is Hugely dependant on CL qualification..

The board will lose patience if things don't improve.. inevitable

 

[6TimesaRed]

How come we weren't challenging for the league every season Suarez was with us then if last season was just down to him?

We're kind of where we are in the table for the majority of the time we had him at the club.

Confidence and Beleif probably paid a huge factor with that..

Things where starting to click towards the end of the season before. The signings of Coutinho and Sturridge in that January where key signings. The only two signings arguably Rodgers so far has got right...

 

[Frogfish]

We'll finish Top 4 this season and Jono will be regretting this thread that is going to hang over him for years to come as we win cups, leagues and BR the Manager of the Universe.

 

[refugee]

He fucked up over Mario, but he's been hugely unfortunate over losing two big goalscorers, any side would struggle.

He's been unfortunate in losing Studge, however he got £70 million for Suarez and he was allowed to spend all of it. Rodgers chose to spend the biggest proportion of that on a defender (to replace a 20 million pound defender he signed the previous season) and Lallana (a very overpriced midfielder in probably one of the positions we needed to strengthen the least). All 3 of our remaining strikers were signed by Rodgers and all 3 have been unfit for purpose. I don't believe that's unfortunate, that's just poor transfer dealings.

Maybe you can argue that the committee is interfering with our transfer decisions and Rodgers doesn't deserve the / all the blame, but I find that hard to swallow.

Last years form went a long way towards hiding our transfer inadequacies, but most of our best players last year were largely signed by other people (Suarez - Rafa; Sterling - Rafa or Kenny, who was in charge of the academy at the time; Henderson - Kenny, who Rodgers tried to force out of the club in exchange for Clint Dempsey; Gerrard).

I'm not calling for his head (yet), but there has to be some concern over transfers in his time as manager. This is also not a kneejerk post as I raised the issue last season: http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/new-deal-for-gaffer.40620/page-2#post-1024190

 

[Frogfish]

The signings of Coutinho and Sturridge in that January where key signings. The only two signings arguably Rodgers so far has got right...

There's a difference between getting signings right and ; excellent/great signings (Coutinho, Sturridge), good signings with potential (Moreno, Manquillo, Can, Origi) or just good signings who can show more than they have so far (Lallana, Allen, Sakho) or those that simply haven't had enough time to show if they can make it here (Balotelli, Lovren). There are few out and out failures per se. most if they didn't/won't work out we made/will make a small profit on or we'll only suffer a small loss.

More important are how those players fit into the team and BR's system(s). Balotelli might fail that one. Then again we should also realise that the changing of the guard (Carra, Luis and soon Stevie, Johnson, Enrique) was always going to cause problems in finding the right personnel and having them adjust to the team and tactics.

To my mind there is only one, major, mistake that hits you right between the eyes ... not finding strikers (not called Balo or Lambo) suited to our system. Remy was on the right track but we should have had more of his ilk lined up (and even in the bag before the 'Remy Saga').

 

[Mystic]

we're not Spurs for fucks sake.

I liked your post just for this.

 

[6TimesaRed]

@refugee at last someone who is talking sense..

2 signings he has got right out of a silly amount.. Why on earth should he be trusted with a January budget if he fails to get things right by then?

There is Also Assaidi, Aspas, Borini, Alberto, Llori.. Players we have loaned out because they are not upto the mark..

35 million.. loaned out on top of a stupid amount outlayed in failed signings

 

[Best Believe It]

I'm not calling for his head (yet), but there has to be some concern over transfers in his time as manager. This is also not a kneejerk post as I raised the issue last season: http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/new-deal-for-gaffer.40620/page-2#post-1024190

When did we last have a manager who was good at signing players? Ged signed some whoppers, Rafa started well and then descended into chaos, Hodgson deemed Paul Konchesky good enough to play for Liverpool, Dalglish spent £35million on Andy Carroll.

Our transfer strategy has been largely shite for years.

 

[mark1975]

What you are saying is correct.. But there is a bigger picture here.. It's a results buisness.. There is plenty at stake.. 60 million Champions League kitty for next season for one..

The board will lose patience if things don't improve.. inevitable

I don't think they want to put themselves in a position where they have just spent £100m and now they want to sack him a few months later, you can go round in circles like that.

The results business view is risky. They bring in a new manager and the whole investment starts again. He needs time, he deserves time after last year. Not just "until January", he deserves to have all of the players he wants in place.

Like I said, he's made mistakes, he's not the only manager with a sketchy transfer record, and as we've seen in the past, some players take longer to settle in. He's got alot of work to do, but this whole idea of fucking him off because of a six month barren spell is daft thinking, it's a longterm view, not a 5yr plan which many fans seemed happy to patiently wait to pan out for other managers, but one which deserves some time to work.

 

[Red Astaire]

What the fuck is this abomination of a thread? Red Ninja trying to create tinter klacker clicks again? I am going to post a boss recipe in the cookbook thread in general chat in a mo. I urge you all to head there instead. 😎

 

[Tinto]

Confidence and Beleif probably paid a huge factor with that..

Things where starting to click towards the end of the season before. The signings of Coutinho and Sturridge in that January where key signings. The only two signings arguably Rodgers so far has got right...

Except we weren't good in the first half of last season. We were just as disjointed as we are now and being overran in midfield. We got lucky with many of our wins back then and we didn't deserve the points based on our performances. Sturridge and Suarez made all the difference between winning matches or dropping points.

Our title challenge was based on two other things as well as confidence and belief:

1. The running, movement and quality of Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez up front. Sterling didn't figure much in the early part of last season.

2. The reshaping of the midfield with Gerrard at the base and Allen and Henderson doing all his running and work in the engine room. We lost a little bit defensively being shaped like that but Gerrard's passing from deep more than made up for it. Coutinho would be swapped for Allen when we needed that extra quality on the ball.

This season so far we've lost all of 1.

Gerrard when playing deep has been targeted by opposing managers this season and he's no longer able to affect matches as well with his passing. So, we've been relying on Allen and Henderson to make those passes but their passing is simply not as good. Also they don't have 1. to offer the passing options.

I think Rodger's can fix the midfield and our attack again. He deserves his chance to. The big doubts about him is with our defense of course. We've only ever looked good there under Rodgers when he bombed Agger out of the side and replaced him with Carra, effectively letting Carra sort it out for him.

If Rodger's gets the midfield and attack working again, we'll make top four.

 

[Delinquent]

You don't post often.. but that is an excellent post..

I do think however if result do not improve by January.. he will be gone.. There is no way the board will trust him with the January Transfer Budget if he fails to get the current crop to click.

Sadly this is a results buisness we are in... I hope he proves me wrong though..

He doesn't need to prove you wrong. Wrong is your default setting.

 

[Frogfish]

I don't think they want to put themselves in a position where they have just spent £100m and now they want to sack him a few months later, you can go round in circles like that.

The results business view is risky. They bring in a new manager and the whole investment starts again. He needs time, he deserves time after last year. Not just "until January", he deserves to have all of the players he wants in place.

I don't think FSG are that type of management anyway. They seem committed to giving BR time and cash and last year was probably a surprise to one and all.

Though with our recent history from the passt 5-6 managers of some poor transfer business maybe a DoF is a good idea. That Sevilla guy some have mentioned ?

 

[refugee]

When did we last have a manager who was good at signing players? Ged signed some whoppers, Rafa started well and then descended into chaos, Hodgson deemed Paul Konchesky good enough to play for Liverpool, Dalglish spent £35million on Andy Carroll.

Our transfer strategy has been largely shite for years.

True.

I think the whole scenario has largely shown the flaw in one of Rosco's arguments / mantras, namely: the manager shouldn't be allowed to sign players. If the general manager / committee / board of directors signs shit players then the money is still squandered but it's hard to apportion blame as your unsure whether it is the managers fault for the players playing badly or if the players just aren't good enough.

 

[gkmacca]

most of our best players last year were largely signed by other people (Suarez - Rafa;

Eh???

 

[Best Believe It]

True.

I think the whole scenario has largely shown the flaw in one of Rosco's arguments / mantras, namely: the manager shouldn't be allowed to sign players. If the general manager / committee / board of directors signs shit players then the money is still squandered but it's hard to apportion blame as your unsure whether it is the managers fault for the players playing badly or if the players just aren't good enough.

Absolutely. I've no idea who makes up the transfer committee, bar Rodgers and, it would appear, Ian Rush, but the point isn't the personnel, it's the strategy itself. If Rodgers was telling the truth, he came into the summer wanting quality not quantity, wanting 2-3 top class players rather than 7 players with potential, and we didn't end up with that. So how was that decision made? And why?

 

[mark1975]

Eh???

HONEST TO GOD.

 

[refugee]

Eh???

I'm not sure what I was thinking. Kenny signed him, but the overall point still stands though.

 

[Judge Jules]

Except we weren't good in the first half of last season. We were just as disjointed as we are now and being overran in midfield. We got lucky with many of our wins back then and we didn't deserve the points based on our performances. Sturridge and Suarez made all the difference between winning matches or dropping points.

Our title challenge was based on two other things as well as confidence and belief:

1. The running, movement and quality of Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez up front. Sterling didn't figure much in the early part of last season.

2. The reshaping of the midfield with Gerrard at the base and Allen and Henderson doing all his running and work in the engine room. We lost a little bit defensively being shaped like that but Gerrard's passing from deep more than made up for it. Coutinho would be swapped for Allen when we needed that extra quality on the ball.

This season so far we've lost all of 1.

Gerrard when playing deep has been targeted by opposing managers this season and he's no longer able to affect matches as well with his passing. So, we've been relying on Allen and Henderson to make those passes but their passing is simply not as good. Also they don't have 1. to offer the passing options.

I think Rodger's can fix the midfield and our attack again. He deserves his chance to. The big doubts about him is with our defense of course. We've only ever looked good there under Rodgers when he bombed Agger out of the side and replaced him with Carra, effectively letting Carra sort it out for him.

If Rodger's gets the midfield and attack working again, we'll make top four.

Excellent post.

 

[nealmac]

Can someone delete some of the 53286 threads calling for Rodgers to be sacked? It's fucking childish at best.

Yes, he needs to answer his critics, but calling for the man to be sacked is a joke. The people calling for his head are probably the same arseholes who were applauding him last season.