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Second best attack in the clubs history!

Dreambeliever

From Doubter to Believer (to doubter again)
Member
With the 3 goals away to Villa, this team has become the second highest scoring in our history.

Amazing considering so many lay the blame on our attack for losing the league.
 
Again, it is fairly straightforward. We have both scored lots of goals and also missed a shit load of chances which would have greatly improved our chances of winning more games. Both things can happen at once. This agenda driven rhetoric is tiring.
 
We've also never really had 5 strikers in every season. We had 5 this season and spread those numbers across them, when we needed one of them to be reliable, particularly in big matches, they just weren't. Imagine if we had that kind of depth, but just one of them had at least a few of these attributes:

* always fit
* a natural goalscorer
* peak age
* a big game player

You can't really say that about any of our strikers this season, they've either been hit and miss or injured. We've scored a lot of goals because we've been in the fortunate situation of having enough players in the squad to rotate, the problem is the drop off in quality that we've sacrificed for quantity. That's been shown up in the big games this season.
 
Again, it is fairly straightforward. We have both scored lots of goals and also missed a shit load of chances which would have greatly improved our chances of winning more games. Both things can happen at once. This agenda driven rhetoric is tiring.

I don't think it's even agenda driven... it's ego driven.

The nodding "look how smart I am" wink wink.

Gross.
 
Sorry but I'm with Dreamy here (and that's so rare it's worthy of note) ! You can't score that many goals (though I need clarification of how we rate goals-per-match rather than an absolute number in a season with a huge number of games). @King Binny

If this holds up though how many we missed becomes relatively irrelevant though it's a handy stick to beat our attack with instead of looking elsewhere for the major culprit (VAR, Injuries, defence, poor subs).

I think we've dropped off when we dropped out of the title race, understandable. However prior to that had VAR had done its job on multiple occasions, had we not conceded the first goal 14 times in the PL and had our defence not given up too many crucial goals at important moments then we'd likely still be leading the PL. Villa was actually a perfect study, how we were in total control and still managed to conceded two more goals.

Of course more goals will never go amiss - but it's conceding goals (either the first or when we've been ahead) that cost us on more occasions than not scoring that extra goal, this season. Titles are won first and foremost by the defence.
 
Sorry but I'm with Dreamy here (and that's so rare it's worthy of note) ! You can't score that many goals (though I need clarification of how we rate goals-per-match rather than an absolute number in a season with a huge number of games). @King Binny

If this holds up though how many we missed becomes relatively irrelevant though it's a handy stick to beat our attack with instead of looking elsewhere for the major culprit (VAR, Injuries, defence, poor subs).

I think we've dropped off when we dropped out of the title race, understandable. However prior to that had VAR had done its job on multiple occasions, had we not conceded the first goal 14 times in the PL and had our defence not given up too many crucial goals at important moments then we'd likely still be leading the PL. Villa was actually a perfect study, how we were in total control and still managed to conceded two more goals.

Of course more goals will never go amiss - but it's conceding goals (either the first or when we've been ahead) that cost us on more occasions than not scoring that extra goal, this season. Titles are won first and foremost by the defence.
My post "Defending the indefensible" makes that case, we leak in too many goals. The Liverpool of the 80s knew how to shut a game down. Why have a highline when there is a 2 goal cushion?
Remember the games when we were down to 10 men, we were more dangerous.
 
Scored fewer than city and Arsenal. That’s why we won’t win the league.
Damn that's an easy one to shoot down - thanks for the set up!

Arsenal 89 goals vs 28 conceded
City 91 goals vs 33 conceded
Liverpool 84 goals vs 41 conceded

Goals difference to Arse GF : 5
Goals difference to City GF : 7
Total diff : 12 goals

Goals difference to Arse GA : 13
Goals difference to City GA : 8
Total diff : 21 goals
 
My post "Defending the indefensible" makes that case, we leak in too many goals. The Liverpool of the 80s knew how to shut a game down. Why have a highline when there is a 2 goal cushion?
Remember the games when we were down to 10 men, we were more dangerous.
third best defence in the league this season

This is why it's tiring. Both attack and defence could have, and should have done much better. Stupid goals to concede (quansah against united), stupid chances missed (diaz at city).

We don't need to fix 1 thing; we need to fix both.

We need for defence:
1) a consistent, fully developed CB to partner virgil, who's not going to break down. Create a stable partnership
2) stop inverting trent like a fucking mong.
3) get a DM who isn't just high energy. Someone who can read the game as well

We need for attack:
1) a reliably fit goal scorer, whos about to enter their prime
2) consistency in the 8's and front line. How can we consistently create and build understanding if we're constantly changing them? I get rotation but we rotate a fucking lot
3) Future proof now. Salah won't be an output machine forever.

We're disjointed and less than the sum of our parts at the minute. and it's fucking tiring as all fuck hearing the opposing arguments.
 
Damn that's an easy one to shoot down - thanks for the set up!

Arsenal 89 goals vs 28 conceded
City 91 goals vs 33 conceded
Liverpool 84 goals vs 41 conceded

Goals difference to Arse GF : 5
Goals difference to City GF : 7
Total diff : 12 goals

Goals difference to Arse GA : 13
Goals difference to City GA : 8
Total diff : 21 goals

That doesn't shoot down anything! It just shows we're nowhere near as good defensively and offensively
 
Damn that's an easy one to shoot down - thanks for the set up!

Arsenal 89 goals vs 28 conceded
City 91 goals vs 33 conceded
Liverpool 84 goals vs 41 conceded

Goals difference to Arse GF : 5
Goals difference to City GF : 7
Total diff : 12 goals

Goals difference to Arse GA : 13
Goals difference to City GA : 8
Total diff : 21 goals
Now go add on big chances missed.

Coming on here wanking over goals we’ve scored when loads of us said those big misses will cost us isn’t the flex dreamy thinks it is.
 
For all the talk about our defence being shite; VVD is nominated for t player of the year; none of our forwards are

Of course, VVD shouldn't be nominated for that either
 
That doesn't shoot down anything! It just shows we're nowhere near as good defensively and offensively
It shows the there is very slight and a relatively inconsequential difference, between our attack and theirs (the league isn't always won by the team that scores the most goals). However having the GA as virtually DOUBLE that of the difference to the GF is absolutely and massively consequential.
 
Now go add on big chances missed.

Coming on here wanking over goals we’ve scored when loads of us said those big misses will cost us isn’t the flex dreamy thinks it is.
There's the black and white of GF and GA. If you want to pick the bones out of something start with that massive GA difference.
 
It shows the there is very slight and a relatively inconsequential difference, between our attack and theirs (the league isn't always won by the team that scores the most goals). However having the GA as virtually DOUBLE that of the difference to the GF is absolutely and massively consequential.
8 worse goals than city isn't that bad when we missed most of our starting back 5 for a sizeable chunk of the season.
13 to a defensively sound, uninjured arsenal isn't bad either
 
There’s a whole symbiotic relationship between attack and defence which we’ve covered loads on here.

Our forwards are nowhere near the standard we need to win the league. Despite our luck just last night, we should’ve been home and dry YET AGAIN. Some of the shite final balls and being offside when they shouldn’t took the game away just as much as conceding goals.

Time and time again we missed big chances in the big moments and were punished.
 
Everyone just needs to accept they've both been nowhere near good enough this year.
 
I don't know whether we're in a "post-pep" era, where everyone thinks perfection is an achievable standard? No one turned us over this year, just as we haven't turned anyone over. We should have scored more, we should have conceded less. Both are glaring issues in this squad, and i cannot fathom why people are picking and choosing which arguments to embrace and which to ignore.

We weren't good enough, and it's down to both areas
 
There's the black and white of GF and GA. If you want to pick the bones out of something start with that massive GA difference.
I plan on picking the bones out of it after the season ends. I want to plot out where we’ve dropped points and if missing chances before going behind contributes to those dropped points.
 
8 worse goals than city isn't that bad when we missed most of our starting back 5 for a sizeable chunk of the season.
13 to a defensively sound arsenal isn't bad either
And I've said numerous times this season that City's defence is nowhere near as good as their previous title winning defences. Unfortunately their midfield and attack was.

As I've said elsewhere today - it's really not on one aspect of the team and we have had atrocious luck (imagine if City or Arsenal had had those 3 critical VAR decisions go against them instead of us, we would be the ones leading the PL) . Or imagine if they had had anywhere near the number and important injuries that we've had (ditto Newcastle, Sheff Utd and others). They have both been ridiculously lucky but then that is a factor in winning the title.

You mentioned just now keeping a stable team to promote understanding. We haven't been able to do that because our forward line has had so many issues to contend with (from injuries to kidnapping to AFCON). Ditto our midfield and ditto our defence. We've had utterly shit luck this season.
 
And I've said numerous times this season that City's defence is nowhere near as good as their previous title winning defences. Unfortunately their attack is.

As I've said elsewhere today - it's really not on one aspect of the team and we have had atrocious luck (imagine if City or Arsenal had had those 3 critical VAR decisions go against them instead of us, we would be the ones leading the PL) . Or imagine if they had had anywhere near the number and important injuries that we've had (ditto Newcastle, Sheff Utd and others). They have both been ridiculously lucky but then that is a factor in winning the title.

You mentioned just now keeping a stable team to promote understanding. We haven't been able to do that because our forward line has had so many issues to contend with (from injuries to kidnapping to AFCON). Ditto our midfield and ditto our defence. We've had utterly shit luck this season.
Yet we've still had consistent chances put on plates for them. this i the thing i don't get with letting the attack off of blame. We had fucking TONS of chances to kill games, and ultimately the players on the pitch didn't make it count. If we weren't creating, and dropping points due to solely the defence, i would rightly focus on that area. But we created a shit-ton of chances; and thats with injuries, kidnappings, AFCON, etc.

Both are fucking shite at times of great importance.

Theres no point in bemoaning other teams luck for injuries or referees; as for me only the Diaz one has merit as that was factually incorrect. The others were poor but subjective calls.

City may not be as good as they were the other years; but neither are we; and our decline is much more than theirs.
 
The issue though is the midfield. I think our defence is actually quite good, our attack is ok but our midfield lacks the control.

Yesterday was a key example. We looked good with Endo on the pitch and then as soon as Endo went off and Macca went to DM we fell apart.

Arsenal have a solid DM who can do the dirty midfield work to protect the defence and help to control games when they get topsy-turvy. We don't have that. When our midfield is either tired or not on it we lose control.

Having Endo, Macca and an injured Bacejetic as our only DM this season was criminal. I love Klopp but he is short-sighted when it comes to stocking up on DMs. Prefers utility over specialists.
 
With the 3 goals away to Villa, this team has become the second highest scoring in our history.

Amazing considering so many lay the blame on our attack for losing the league.

Well, this is some really interesting analysis.

Let's try to get somewhere here. Do you think we play elite attacking football?
 
The best attack in some games yeah... But not in the ones we needed to win where we lacked cutting edge
 
We've hit the woodwork 24 times in the league this season which is pretty insane. Some of its bad luck but its also a sign of poor finishing if we're being honest.
 
There’s a whole symbiotic relationship between attack and defence which we’ve covered loads on here.

Our forwards are nowhere near the standard we need to win the league. Despite our luck just last night, we should’ve been home and dry YET AGAIN. Some of the shite final balls and being offside when they shouldn’t took the game away just as much as conceding goals.

Time and time again we missed big chances in the big moments and were punished.
Exactly. We’re too open in defence precisely because we need to create a huge number of chances in order to score. A clinical strike force would mean we can focus more time on defence.
 
The best attack in some games yeah... But not in the ones we needed to win where we lacked cutting edge
I think Klopp should take a lot of the credit for the number of chances we created - he cannot put the ball in the net himself, but he can draw up plays that make the chance possible. I thinn we lead the league in XG this season - that shows the quality of Klopp’s work.
 
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