Nobody will say as much right now. With such a long time before the next GE no party will set out plans for them to be lambasted by the press for what will be an age.
Sunlit Uplands
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The Tories won't change their tune it. They are already in enough trouble without Farage and whatever his party is showing up and promising to save Brexit, or whatever.
Labour have already ruled it. I know Starmer likes to change his mind on things a lot, but he won't be risking this. He won't want Brexit mentioned at all.
The Lib Dems might end up committing to rejoin closer to the time.
A little research? Where? What is wrong with asking you?
Anyway, I guess my follow up question becomes void then.
I imagine it would make some sense to at least see how things play out before campaigning for an overturn. Perhaps there is quite the fatigue around the issue as well.
Yes, you might be right. The non-engagement reasoning seems plausible.
In Norway where I live, the voter turnout for parliament is between 76-78% for the last four elections,
Bwexit is defintely the reason millions of people are in god awful economic pain. Look at the US inflation, they didn't have bwexit and their monetary policy is working, the dollar hasn't devalued.
Look at us, we did the brexit, and our monetary policy isn't working anymore since then, it can only be due to brexit. Brexit bad. Many bads.
But I can have good feels because I didn't do brexit, I was a remain voter, unlike the wacist who are responsible for all the pain I heroically tried to avert by my vote.
Look at us, we did the brexit, and our monetary policy isn't working anymore since then, it can only be due to brexit. Brexit bad. Many bads.
But I can have good feels because I didn't do brexit, I was a remain voter, unlike the wacist who are responsible for all the pain I heroically tried to avert by my vote.
Let me check that the facts check out,
[article]
Brexit was the withdrawal of the UK from the EU at 23:00 GMT on 31 January 2020
[/article]
[article]
Joe Biden's tenure as the 46th president of the United States began with his inauguration on January 20, 2021.
[/article]
Hmm, uhhhh, well no, no, I'm not a fact checker so I must have made a mistake in my check, this is just hurtful misinformation being pushed by conspiracy theorists. Look at it, there's not even a reliable source given for either those dates, yeah, they're obvious lies.
[article]
Brexit was the withdrawal of the UK from the EU at 23:00 GMT on 31 January 2020
[/article]
[article]
Joe Biden's tenure as the 46th president of the United States began with his inauguration on January 20, 2021.
[/article]
Hmm, uhhhh, well no, no, I'm not a fact checker so I must have made a mistake in my check, this is just hurtful misinformation being pushed by conspiracy theorists. Look at it, there's not even a reliable source given for either those dates, yeah, they're obvious lies.
Right. My own perspective into this might carry some comparison as Norway are also not part of the EU, as I am sure you know.
There are multiple agreements of course, which bind Norway to the EU in multiple ways, displacing power out of the country.
Personally, I agree with you on the principle of democracy and voting connected to what goes on where you live. This is one thing that I also don't like about the EU.
Today's society is much more intertwined though, and both through agreements with the EU and multinational companies operating, manifested through money, people, goods and information flows and more, power is quite widely distributed, privately, in bureaucracies etc. So, how decisions are made becomes quite muddled, and the world is so interconnected. But yes, in principle I agree. However, it begs the question - how much do the UK decide now, compared to before? How much are they tied by their dependency on others, i.e. through trade? Is the UK stronger now?
As for the second part, I guess I am just as curious towards positives as I am towards challenges, if it is possible to say much this early, or as you say, what is down to Brexit and what is not? I am sure both good and bad things the different sides claimed would happen have, and others not.
When the debate about membership or not comes up in Norway, some of the key issues are control over our natural resources, particularly the fish, and principles like yours, displacing power and decision making further away from our own political institutions. The colonial past also plays a part, being under Denmark, then Sweden, for hundreds of years makes people not want another overlord. I also think the EU is more of a political, capitalist tool than this idealist "union" of one, and more of a trade block to compete with China and The US. So I am not too keen myself. I believe more localised, community based power is a good thing, closer to the people themselves. But that is another story.
Sigh, yes, there is a reason the numbers are different, which I was alluding too whilst putting on the clown make up and saying that reason is bwexit.
Narrator: the reason was not brexit.
Text book on basic monetary theory: the reason is the dollar is the reserve currency of the world, so when they print trillions the rest of the world has to suck it up, when we print trillions to enrich are paedophile overlords, nobody is sucking that up, our currency devalues, and therefore our pathetic attempt at raising interest rates without the government budget paying the price, fails to actually reduce inflation other than the token amount you see in the graph.
Germany's inflation rate. We can go through the rest of the eurozone, shall we? I'm here all night.
France. Oh I'm here tonight, a shame I wasn't a few weeks back when france burned to the ground just as I told you it would. If memory serves it was actually before brexit when you were saying our financial institutions would move to Paris, and I told you no millionaire banker would ever consider moving their family from London to that failed shithole of a city. Look upon their lands now and allow your soul to weep. But first look upon their inflation.
The relative change in Frances inflation is what causes their suffering. Compare France to France. All good. Compare France to UK, not so good. The absolute difference between our rate and their rate is a product of the differences in our two economies. I'm sure I've listed the factors describing an economy to you before, inflation, interest rates, trade balances, M2 money supply, sovereign liquidity, relative gdp growth, and so forth. We're only interested in the absolute difference if you want to predict the exchange rate. If what you care about is people suffering, then compare the french apples to french apples.
Good post if I may say so. IMO intelligent perspectives like yours are equally valuable whether from within or from outside the EU.
The world certainly is more interconnected nowadays, but AFAIC that's all the more reason to keep clear democratic control in the hands of nation-states and not to let it become submerged and ultimately abandoned in favour of faceless government by centralised diktat. The UK is still in the early stages of its post-EU journey but I can already give you at least one very clear answer to the question about what the UK controls now compared to before, and that's our response to the Covid pandemic. To begin with the EU was in total chaos over what to do whereas, as well as developing one of the first vaccines ourselves, we were out there buying the vaccine stocks and medical equipment we knew we would need. There are people alive in the UK today as a result who would not have been if we'd still been constrained by the (literally) dead hand of EU bureaucracy.
One of the few things with which I would disagree in your post is your very final sentence. The need to keep real power in the hands of ordinary people, not hand it over to the capitalist power grab which you (rightly IMO) identify as the true motor driving the "European project", is not and should not be regarded as "another story". It's absolutely central to the issue and we lose sight of it at our peril.
Yes the final part should have read it is a story for another time, as I didn´t want to waffle on too much.
Also, I agree with your point on avoiding faceless, centralised pan-national governance, but I am also not sure the nation-state is the answer.
I am also a believer of the so called mixed-economic approach, and when it comes to and distribution of power. I think the state has to manage certain key issues, but with most decisions localised. I think the same about the economy. Certain areas catering to basic needs, like water, energy supply, key transportation (like rail) and health & social services, should be state-run, and exempt from privatisation.
Also, new public management has all but ruined the health and education sectors in Norway. People are fleeing, as the bureaucracy and control regimes keep growing.
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My bro voted leave as he liked this utopian dream of being able to choose your own govt. As if. The press choose it, and they're all billionaires who live overseas and have vested interests in crashing our economy. And as has been mentioned earlier, there's no option for 'please can we stop this madness'.
I'm not a fan of the EU but I'm not a fan of our system either. At least within the EU we had half a chance at growing as a country.
I'm not a fan of the EU but I'm not a fan of our system either. At least within the EU we had half a chance at growing as a country.
Yes, it seems rather naive, but alternatives are also filled with negatives. On the balance, IDK what wins out. The isolationist/nationalist tendencies seem very dated, although I sympathise with the principles of power residing closer to the actual people.
No, the algae in the subterranean water there would do a better job.
Apologies, the research I meant was using the search facility on this forum for old posts.
I, personally don't see a return to the Union anytime soon if ever; regardless of the merits (or otherwise). Years have passed in parliamentary turmoil, attempts to overturn the vote in the courts, people taking to the media and abusing one's fellow citizens relentlessly for taking a different view has now cemented both camps in their silos. No chance of a reconciliation for generations in my view.
I can't even see a benefit sufficiently attractive to change minds either. Certainly economics, energy security, open borders and civil unrest within the current EU don't scream join do they? In my world you work to improve your situation not sit on the sidelines bemoaning a decision you don't like.
There must be a better reason to reapply (not certain we'd even be accepted) than we've had Brexit for a couple of years and the sunlit uplands haven't appeared.
Re: the Farage thing, the reason I said he'd done us a favour is because denying people the ability to transact based on their views (which has been shown to be true) is wrong in my opinion - why this translated to you assuming I voted for Brexit I don't understand other than Farage is a marmite figure maybe?
I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe. Are you seriously lauding the government's pandemic response?
I'm lauding their initial response. Everyone's pre-preparedness including the UK's was poor but, when the solids hit the air-conditioning, the EU were caught like rabbits in headlights whereas the UK acted. There were plenty of mistakes made over time, but there were always going to be in a situation which was immediate, serious and largely unprecedented.
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Did I imagine the NHS PPE crisis? And the care home crisis? And the absence of any quarantine controls for travellers from covid-stricken nations until the second year of the pandemic? And the many thousands of avoidable deaths that resulted from this omnishambles?
The UK's pandemic response was significantly worse than that of comparable EU nations, and worse than the EU as a whole. And that's not to mention the UK government's scandalous corruption and profiteering in its awarding of Covid contracts, and the resulting misappropriation of public funds.
Honestly, what a bizarre way to promote Brexit.
