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Is Lucas in the top 20 CM's in the Premiership ?

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[quote author=Krump link=topic=47011.msg1405726#msg1405726 date=1317121683]
I mean I'll concede he's above average for the general male population, but as he's the worst DM we've ever had, considerably lower than average for us.
[/quote]

Really?

Igor Biscan
Momo Sissoko
Salif Diao
Jean Michel Ferri
Danny Guthrie
Christian Poulsen
Damien Plessis

And those are just ones who spring to mind..
 
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405670#msg1405670 date=1317117616]
Lucas Job is to break up play and keep posession.
He does that beautifully.

Our missfiring forward line have missed a shitload of chances that should have seen us get 5 more points than we have and be just 1 point off the top.
And as a by product the flak falls on the team as a whole.....and once again Lucas. Who to be clear has been pretty good so far.

If we had taken half the chances we had made we would be flying high, its pretty shameful that the massive red eye of hate INSTANTLY turns on Lucas when we arent on top form.

All of this 'if we want to be the best we need better than Lucas' doesnt wash with me at all. Its not Lucas who isnt creating anything from the right. Its not Lucas who isnt justifying a 35m price tag. Its not Lucas who is missing two or three sitters every game. Its not Lucas who got sent off against spurs. Its not Lucas who cost us goals against Stoke or Sunderland or anyone else for that matter.

Battle for possession. Keep possession.
Lucas does it beautifully and would be one of the first names on my team sheet.
[/quote]

Oncy speaks trufax.
 
Arsenal, United and Chelsea generally never try to press us in the middle Fab
Click to expand...

Baaaaaahahahahahahahahaha. Be honest Ross, you're just making this up as you go aren't you.

What a truly fucking ridiculous thing to say.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405670#msg1405670 date=1317117616]
Lucas Job is to break up play and keep posession.
He does that beautifully.

Our missfiring forward line have missed a shitload of chances that should have seen us get 5 more points than we have and be just 1 point off the top.
And as a by product the flak falls on the team as a whole.....and once again Lucas. Who to be clear has been pretty good so far.

If we had taken half the chances we had made we would be flying high, its pretty shameful that the massive red eye of hate INSTANTLY turns on Lucas when we arent on top form.

All of this 'if we want to be the best we need better than Lucas' doesnt wash with me at all. Its not Lucas who isnt creating anything from the right. Its not Lucas who isnt justifying a 35m price tag. Its not Lucas who is missing two or three sitters every game. Its not Lucas who got sent off against spurs. Its not Lucas who cost us goals against Stoke or Sunderland or anyone else for that matter.

Battle for possession. Keep possession.
Lucas does it beautifully and would be one of the first names on my team sheet.
[/quote]

But it IS Lucas who creates practically nothing (even Masher with his so-called "poor passing" set up more, plus he was a damn sight better at the tough stuff, and that's before even mentioning Alonso). It is Lucas who never even comes close to being a threat when he does get forward (even Masher got the occasional goal, ditto Alonso). It is Lucas who in some games gives the ball away half a dozen times in dangerous positions near our goal. He's taken too much stick for too long from some posters, but some are now going too far in the opposite direction and this post of yours is a prime example.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]

I'd take Lucas over Momo yes. Momo started off a good player who became increasingly worse whereas I see the reverse with Lucas - a poor player who was increasingly improved. I don't measure players by a single performance either.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405735#msg1405735 date=1317122814]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
[/quote]

Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405746#msg1405746 date=1317124655]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405735#msg1405735 date=1317122814]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
[/quote]

Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
[/quote]

If we were to take them at their average performance, it would still be Lucas.

Although I'm not sure what the point is in comparing him to that list of players.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47011.msg1405747#msg1405747 date=1317124743]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405746#msg1405746 date=1317124655]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405735#msg1405735 date=1317122814]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
[/quote]

Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
[/quote]

If we were to take them at their average performance, it would still be Lucas.

Although I'm not sure what the point is in comparing him to that list of players.
[/quote]

On their average performance, Lucas is well above them ... but as you say, that list of players is not that impressive.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47011.msg1405744#msg1405744 date=1317124448]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405670#msg1405670 date=1317117616]
Lucas Job is to break up play and keep posession.
He does that beautifully.

Our missfiring forward line have missed a shitload of chances that should have seen us get 5 more points than we have and be just 1 point off the top.
And as a by product the flak falls on the team as a whole.....and once again Lucas. Who to be clear has been pretty good so far.

If we had taken half the chances we had made we would be flying high, its pretty shameful that the massive red eye of hate INSTANTLY turns on Lucas when we arent on top form.

All of this 'if we want to be the best we need better than Lucas' doesnt wash with me at all. Its not Lucas who isnt creating anything from the right. Its not Lucas who isnt justifying a 35m price tag. Its not Lucas who is missing two or three sitters every game. Its not Lucas who got sent off against spurs. Its not Lucas who cost us goals against Stoke or Sunderland or anyone else for that matter.

Battle for possession. Keep possession.
Lucas does it beautifully and would be one of the first names on my team sheet.
[/quote]

But it IS Lucas who creates practically nothing (even Masher with his so-called "poor passing" set up more, plus he was a damn sight better at the tough stuff, and that's before even mentioning Alonso). It is Lucas who never even comes close to being a threat when he does get forward (even Masher got the occasional goal, ditto Alonso). It is Lucas who in some games gives the ball away half a dozen times in dangerous positions near our goal. He's taken too much stick for too long from some posters, but some are now going too far in the opposite direction and this post of yours is a prime example.
[/quote]No it isnt. The people who are anti-lucas claim constantly that those who are pro-lucas go over the top and claim him one of the best players in the world. Even when we repeatedly say 'hes the best weve got' and our sole standpoint is that you should play your best players and SUPPORT them.
I for one wanted Diarra all summer long, I wanted Mascherano to come back when he couldnt get a game, I wanted Defour, I wanted Martinez, I wanted DeRossi.....but we dont have any of those players. We have lucas. Im ok with that because I think hes a good player and is doing a solid job (a lot like Kuyt), I (or anyone else for that matter) am not claiming we couldnt have or havnt had better. Thats just what lazy people are suggesting because it fits their crappy arguments. Lets paint them as delusional that way we can pretend to have the moral high ground. Its shite JJ.
And regarding what lucas brings to the team (or is being asked to do) I think we'll have to disagree on many levels, because i dont think mascherano created any more (or scored any more) i also dont think his job is to create, his job is to keep play ticking over which he does and your 'loses the ball' point is just plain wrong. He has a high pass completion rate.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405746#msg1405746 date=1317124655]
Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
[/quote]

Which I more or less said earlier in the thread.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405750#msg1405750 date=1317125445]
No it isnt. The people who are anti-lucas claim constantly that those who are pro-lucas go over the top and claim him one of the best players in the world. Even when we repeatedly say 'hes the best weve got' and our sole standpoint is that you should play your best players and SUPPORT them.
I for one wanted Diarra all summer long, I wanted Mascherano to come back when he couldnt get a game, I wanted Defour, I wanted Martinez, I wanted DeRossi.....but we dont have any of those players. We have lucas. Im ok with that because I think hes a good player and is doing a solid job (a lot like Kuyt), I (or anyone else for that matter) am not claiming we couldnt have or havnt had better. Thats just what lazy people are suggesting because it fits their crappy arguments. Lets paint them as delusional that way we can pretend to have the moral high ground. Its shite JJ.
And regarding what lucas brings to the team (or is being asked to do) I think we'll have to disagree on many levels, because i dont think mascherano created any more (or scored any more) i also dont think his job is to create, his job is to keep play ticking over which he does and your 'loses the ball' point is just plain wrong. He has a high pass completion rate.
[/quote]

*Applauds*


*Protects Oncys back with an emblazoned shield of purest Lucanium*

Break that down motherfuckers.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405670#msg1405670 date=1317117616]
Lucas Job is to break up play and keep posession.
He does that beautifully.

Our missfiring forward line have missed a shitload of chances that should have seen us get 5 more points than we have and be just 1 point off the top.
And as a by product the flak falls on the team as a whole.....and once again Lucas. Who to be clear has been pretty good so far.

If we had taken half the chances we had made we would be flying high, its pretty shameful that the massive red eye of hate INSTANTLY turns on Lucas when we arent on top form.

All of this 'if we want to be the best we need better than Lucas' doesnt wash with me at all. Its not Lucas who isnt creating anything from the right. Its not Lucas who isnt justifying a 35m price tag. Its not Lucas who is missing two or three sitters every game. Its not Lucas who got sent off against spurs. Its not Lucas who cost us goals against Stoke or Sunderland or anyone else for that matter.

Battle for possession. Keep possession.
Lucas does it beautifully and would be one of the first names on my team sheet.
[/quote]

[/close thread]
 
So in conclusion, people hate Lucas, and don't like him doing we'll.

Frankly I'm appalled this thread isn't about Adam.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405750#msg1405750 date=1317125445]
No it isnt. The people who are anti-lucas claim constantly that those who are pro-lucas go over the top and claim him one of the best players in the world. Even when we repeatedly say 'hes the best weve got' and our sole standpoint is that you should play your best players and SUPPORT them.
I for one wanted Diarra all summer long, I wanted Mascherano to come back when he couldnt get a game, I wanted Defour, I wanted Martinez, I wanted DeRossi.....but we dont have any of those players. We have lucas. Im ok with that because I think hes a good player and is doing a solid job (a lot like Kuyt), I (or anyone else for that matter) am not claiming we couldnt have or havnt had better. Thats just what lazy people are suggesting because it fits their crappy arguments. Lets paint them as delusional that way we can pretend to have the moral high ground. Its shite JJ.
And regarding what lucas brings to the team (or is being asked to do) I think we'll have to disagree on many levels, because i dont think mascherano created any more (or scored any more) i also dont think his job is to create, his job is to keep play ticking over which he does and your 'loses the ball' point is just plain wrong. He has a high pass completion rate.
[/quote]

You should post more Oncy. You actually make sense. Which in here is a rare commodity.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47011.msg1405759#msg1405759 date=1317126970]
So in conclusion, people hate Lucas, and don't like him doing we'll.

Frankly I'm appalled this thread isn't about Adam.
[/quote]

Who hates Lucas?
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405764#msg1405764 date=1317127218]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47011.msg1405759#msg1405759 date=1317126970]
So in conclusion, people hate Lucas, and don't like him doing we'll.

Frankly I'm appalled this thread isn't about Adam.
[/quote]

Who hates Lucas?
[/quote]

This isn't some German website where you have to back things up with fact you know Wizzy. Get the fuck with it man.
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=47011.msg1405767#msg1405767 date=1317127734]
I have noted some serious 'mod on mod' action in this thread....and Ross is getting a pasting.
[/quote]

I really don't like the sound of "mod on mod action" V. Urgh
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=47011.msg1405773#msg1405773 date=1317128045]
I was jus saying like....
[/quote]

Just keep your lustful kinkiness under wraps in future you filthy minded bugger.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47011.msg1405747#msg1405747 date=1317124743]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405746#msg1405746 date=1317124655]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405735#msg1405735 date=1317122814]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
[/quote]

Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
[/quote]

If we were to take them at their average performance, it would still be Lucas.

Although I'm not sure what the point is in comparing him to that list of players.
[/quote]

It seems the initial point was to cast him as the worst defensive midfielder we've ever had. Which seems to have failed. Instead, he has now been recognized as the best of all the shit defensive midfielders we've ever had. A worthwhile exercise then.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47011.msg1405778#msg1405778 date=1317129025]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47011.msg1405747#msg1405747 date=1317124743]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405746#msg1405746 date=1317124655]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47011.msg1405735#msg1405735 date=1317122814]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=47011.msg1405732#msg1405732 date=1317122522]
You'd take Lucas on his best day over Momo on his best day (remember against Barca?)?

The others though, I think, have played less games combined at CM than Lucas has ...
[/quote]Thats because they are all shit and lucas is boss.
[/quote]

Yes, if we were to take them at their PEAKS for Liverpool, I'd take Lucas over all of them, bar maybe Sissoko. That would be a coin flip.
[/quote]

If we were to take them at their average performance, it would still be Lucas.

Although I'm not sure what the point is in comparing him to that list of players.
[/quote]

It seems the initial point was to cast him as the worst defensive midfielder we've ever had. Which seems to have failed. Instead, he has now been recognized as the best of all the shit defensive midfielders we've ever had. A worthwhile exercise then.
[/quote]HUZZAH!! Victory!!
 
*swirls brandy round glass and allows a puff of smoke to escape from end of hand rolled cigar*
 
lucas may not be that exciting a player, but he does his role well. the only thing is that he gives away too many cheap fouls, but bar that i'm happy to have him in the team. There are enough players around him who should be able to create chances, and they have been (maybe not enough just yet but i am generally quite pleased with our attack this season.. just need suarez and carroll to get back to their best in terms of finishing). as someone else said, i'm more concerned about adam regarding his defensive duties. he is worse than lucas with fouls because he is very sluggish and our defence at the moment needs better support. when gerrard is fully fit it should be adam who loses his place, in my opinion.
 
I'll concede that nostalgia has made me forget some of the turd who had a little go at being our DM, but even still Lucas is below average when we start at position zero, Case, and work forward via Souness, Whelan, McMahon, Molby, Hamann, Alonso, Masch, etc.

Yeah, there's a large gap there from 1996 when Molby finished until 2001 when we got Hamann.

Not a massive surprise that we DIDN'T WIN A FUCKING THING.

And here we are again.
 
[quote author=Krump link=topic=47011.msg1405786#msg1405786 date=1317131237]
I'll concede that nostalgia has made me forget some of the turd who had a little go at being our DM, but even still Lucas is below average when we start at position zero, Case, and work forward via Souness, Whelan, McMahon, Molby, Hamann, Alonso, Masch, etc.

Yeah, there's a large gap there from 1996 when Molby finished until 2001 when we got Hamann.

Not a massive surprise that we DIDN'T WIN A FUCKING THING.

And here we are again.
[/quote]

Yes. I agree he's not at that level. Although I remember how shite people thought Whelan was for a while. And it does dissappoint me we've let so many great midfielders leave. My case in point though is he is, in position (DM), better than what else we have, he isn't AS bad as people are making out but he is not the answer or a path to success but merely a stepping stone and should be a quite useful squad member going forwards
 
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