Arsenal...

[hamstrung_pigeon]

It even goes beyond Rafa's struggle against Wenger as even under Evans, Houllier and Kenny we struggled versus the Gunners

From 1996 to 2001, Houllier and Evans actually regularly beat Wenger's Arsenal, cluminating in the Michael Owen FA Cup final.

From LFCHistory (Liverpool scores first):
-- Houllier --
12 May 2001 2 - 1 Millennium Stadium FA Cup Final
23 December 2000 4 - 0 Anfield Premier League
21 August 2000 0 - 2 Highbury Premier League
13 February 2000 1 - 0 Highbury Premier League
28 August 1999 2 - 0 Anfield Premier League
9 January 1999 0 - 0 Highbury Premier League
-- Evans/Houllier --
22 August 1998 0 - 0 Anfield Premier League
-- Evans --
6 May 1998 4 - 0 Anfield Premier League
30 November 1997 1 - 0 Highbury Premier League
24 March 1997 2 - 1 Highbury Premier League
27 November 1996 4 - 2 Anfield League Cup 4th round
-- Wenger joins Arsenal --

11 games: 8 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat.

Unfortunately, the rest of the games after the 2001 final have mostly either been draws or defeats to them. Probably someone put a curse on us as we stole the FA Cup after having been totally outplayed for the entire game.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

How can you forget this



and noone got a red card in this game.

Hero or Zero #8 - Neil Mellor. Fucking Hero just for that.

And of course, for his contribution in the comeback game against Olympiacos. No Mellor, No Istanbul.

 

[refugee]

From 1996 to 2001, Houllier and Evans actually regularly beat Wenger's Arsenal, cluminating in the Michael Owen FA Cup final.

From LFCHistory (Liverpool scores first):
-- Houllier --
12 May 2001 2 - 1 Millennium Stadium FA Cup Final
23 December 2000 4 - 0 Anfield Premier League
21 August 2000 0 - 2 Highbury Premier League
13 February 2000 1 - 0 Highbury Premier League
28 August 1999 2 - 0 Anfield Premier League
9 January 1999 0 - 0 Highbury Premier League
-- Evans/Houllier --
22 August 1998 0 - 0 Anfield Premier League
-- Evans --
6 May 1998 4 - 0 Anfield Premier League
30 November 1997 1 - 0 Highbury Premier League
24 March 1997 2 - 1 Highbury Premier League
27 November 1996 4 - 2 Anfield League Cup 4th round
-- Wenger joins Arsenal --

11 games: 8 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat.

Unfortunately, the rest of the games after the 2001 final have mostly either been draws or defeats to them. Probably someone put a curse on us as we stole the FA Cup after having been totally outplayed for the entire game.

Everything changed after the game where Didi was sent off (Arsenal had two sent of, but we still lost). Fowler / Owen tended to save their best games for Arsenal

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Everything changed after the game where Didi was sent off (Arsenal had two sent of, but we still lost). Fowler / Owen tended to save their best games for Arsenal

Hmm... is this correct? If we're thinking of the same game, then it's the 21 Aug 2000 game in the list; the only defeat in that 11-game stretch. It saw three sendings off, but it was 2 for us (Gary Mac and Didi) and 1 for them (Vieira). It was also the game where Grimandi the dirty fucking coward sneakily stamped on Gary Mac's hand while the latter was sitting on the pitch. To rub salt into the wound, Grimandi escaped a red for that (think he was charged after), and Gary Mac's red was rescinded after the game I think.

 

[refugee]

Hmm... is this correct? If we're thinking of the same game, then it's the 21 Aug 2000 game in the list; the only defeat in that 11-game stretch. It saw three sendings off, but it was 2 for us (Gary Mac and Didi) and 1 for them (Vieira). It was also the game where Grimandi the dirty fucking coward sneakily stamped on Gary Mac's hand while the latter was sitting on the pitch. To rub salt into the wound, Grimandi escaped a red for that (think he was charged after), and Gary Mac's red was rescinded after the game I think.

That's the one. My memory was fuzzy

Up until then we seemed to be their boggy team, but that win gave them a physiological boost

 

[localny]

I remember the Rafa CL win well over two legs - Cracking game. I thought we were out when Walcott scored after that great run. But no, we had more in the tank!

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

I actually cheated by Googling. 😀 But I remembered that Grimandi incident very very well because it totally pissed me off. From the list, we actually still went ahead to tonk them 4-0 in the next tie, and of course stole the FA Cup, but yeah, we were hardly a match in that final and things haven't been quite right since.

Time to correct some wrongs.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

How can you forget this



and noone got a red card in this game.

The Arsenal centre backs reaction to the goal looks familiar, sure ive seen it somewhere recently.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

I remember the Rafa CL win well over two legs - Cracking game. I thought we were out when Walcott scored after that great run. But no, we had more in the tank!

That 4-2 game is one of the best games ever, Hyypias header beauty, they played us off the park up until then, such a great game with a lot on the line, ebbed and flowed right to the end.

 

[Farkmaster]

I'd guess a draw or loss, but I genuinely don't know what to expect from our team. We keep playing Gerrard in one of the only positions he could play that he's consistently demonstrated he's shit at, we've got a game begging for quality fullbacks, and instead we have my cult hero and flanno who quietly has been solid but unspectacular until he's subbed every game, and we've got a revolving door of CBs, the best of which is whoever isn't playing currently, and the most consistent of which can't make a defensive header. But despite all that we've got more than one or two real attacking talents, who if they can ever have the ball for more than 3 minutes in a game, will score a few goals.

One thing I'd bet my landlords house on though, we won't win the game 1-0.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

ffs, it was Mellor, i think he had come as a sub or something, was pretty young in that game
my memory is actually bad, in general

 

[TheRedCrusade]

Everything changed after the game where Didi was sent off (Arsenal had two sent of, but we still lost). Fowler / Owen tended to save their best games for Arsenal

No I meant after Wenger joined Arsenal, we always struggled against them, i didnt check the stats but if i rememember correctly we have struggled

 

[tombrown]

Hmm... is this correct? If we're thinking of the same game, then it's the 21 Aug 2000 game in the list; the only defeat in that 11-game stretch. It saw three sendings off, but it was 2 for us (Gary Mac and Didi) and 1 for them (Vieira). It was also the game where Grimandi the dirty fucking coward sneakily stamped on Gary Mac's hand while the latter was sitting on the pitch. To rub salt into the wound, Grimandi escaped a red for that (think he was charged after), and Gary Mac's red was rescinded after the game I think.

The game they had two sent off & we had one was the Carragher coin throwing one. FA Cup game I think

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

No I meant after Wenger joined Arsenal, we always struggled against them, i didnt check the stats but if i rememember correctly we have struggled

Those 11 games where we went 8-2-1 against the Gunners with Evans and/or Houllier was after Wenger joined. Evans never lost to Wenger at all, going 4-0-0; the only draw was when the club was under joint management.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

The game they had two sent off & we had one was the Carragher coin throwing one. FA Cup game I think

Ah yes, you're right. Can't quite remember anymore except the Carra coin toss incident, but reading up on the LFCHistory site, it was a FA Cup 4th round game; Bergkamp scored in the first half, Keown got sent off in the second half; Bergkamp followed a while later; Carra tossed the coin back and joined the early dismissals.

If you wish to relive the pain:
-- http://www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/2300

 

[tombrown]

We were 1-0 down and they just got the second red. If Carra hadn't thrown the coin it would have been 11 vs 9 for about 25 minutes (I think) and you would have thought we could have made that count. As it was, with being just one man down they battened the hatches & held out.

BTW - Dalglish excelled himself in his final season when we played Arsenal in December; having gone unbeaten up until then & scored in every game, he played 4 full backs (Burrows, Nicol, Ablett, Venison) in the team and lost 3-0. That was the beginning of the end...

You could say Nicol & Ablett were also centre backs, but that ignores the fact he had Hysen & Gillespie in there 🙂

 

[Spionkop69]

We were 1-0 down and they just got the second red. If Carra hadn't thrown the coin it would have been 11 vs 9 for about 25 minutes (I think) and you would have thought we could have made that count. As it was, with being just one man down they battened the hatches & held out.

BTW - Dalglish excelled himself in his final season when we played Arsenal in December; having gone unbeaten up until then & scored in every game, he played 4 full backs (Burrows, Nicol, Ablett, Venison) in the team and lost 3-0. That was the beginning of the end...

You could say Nicol & Ablett were also centre backs, but that ignores the fact he had Hysen & Gillespie in there 🙂

I was stood on the North Bank that day...

 

[tombrown]

Luckily I stayed home & watched in on the box. It was horrible

 

[Silver Sean]

One game at a time, boys. Let's fuck these utter bellends up, then see where we are.
Fuck I hate them so much. A nail in their title ambitions and us taking three points to keep on the move would be massive.

 

[Le Chacal]

Crouch's hat trick!

 

[Spionkop69]

Crouch's hat trick!

Was there for that too!

 

[Wizardry]

A lot of negativity about this game - as though Arsenal are somehow a team to be feared. They're no Barca, Munich or even City.

They key for this match is us not them. I'm not sure if the Brom performance was fatigue or if we had our minds on this match. If it was the latter then I genuinely think Sturridge, Suarez and Sterling can cause that back four enormous problems. Their midfield is full of creativity but they're missing the one player who can get stuck in which is going to count against them in this contest.

I don't think Arsenal is going to enjoy this contest at all. The one possible exception is Chamberlain - he won the Palace game for them. He's got the pace and directness which could worry us - particularly if he comes in from the left as he did with Palace. Flanagan will have his challenges but elsewhere I think we'll put them out of their comfort zone and they don't function well when that happens.

 

[Gary25]

A lot of negativity about this game - as though Arsenal are somehow a team to be feared. They're no Barca, Munich or even City.

They key for this match is us not them. I'm not sure if the Brom performance was fatigue or if we had our minds on this match. If it was the latter then I genuinely think Sturridge, Suarez and Sterling can cause that back four enormous problems. Their midfield is full of creativity but they're missing the one player who can get stuck in which is going to count against them in this contest.

I don't think Arsenal is going to enjoy this contest at all. The one possible exception is Chamberlain - he won the Palace game for them. He's got the pace and directness which could worry us - particularly if he comes in from the left as he did with Palace. Flanagan will have his challenges but elsewhere I think we'll put them out of their comfort zone and they don't function well when that happens.

That's very weak mate.

Yes, we've some important players out at the minute, defensively, but we had 5 days between Everton and West Brom. 6 days between West Brom and Arsenal so if the players had one eye on a game 6 days later then you'd have to worry about their mindset.

We have no Europe this season and that is undoubtedly an advantage, can't be using the 'we were tired excuse' after a poor performance.

 

[Wizardry]

I just think that's out of touch. Fitness and fatigue are more than 60% a state of mind. The majority of players out there are fit in an elite sense. What separates them, what enables one to cover the ground after 65 minutes is the mental strength.

We've played Suarez and others constantly for an extended period. They're not physically exhausted but the mental effort to get themselves up for every game will leave anybody jaded and that makes them tired.

When you do get jaded then it takes something special to spark you again - a match against Arsenal certainly qualifies. The natural response is to preserve yourself for that, to focus on it.

I'm not saying this is definitely what happened but I'd defy anyone to tell me we didn't look slower, tired or jaded against West Brom.

Sent from my HTC One XL

 

[Brizzle]

So, line up. I think even if Agger or Sakho are back from injury, they won't be ready to start. And against Arsenal I would expect Kolo to have some extra fire in his belly.

I'd want to see:

-------------Mignolet-----------------
Kelly---Skrtel---Toure---Flanagan
-------------Gerrard------------------
---------Hendo--Coutinho----------
Sterling----------------------Suarez
--------------Studge-----------------

I wouldn't be surprised to see Allen get a start, maybe at the expense of Coutinho, however he was great vs Everton and if he can replicate that then fantastic.

Flanno to LB to help Toure cover that side, and Kelly at RB. Arsenal will press a lot from the front and I think would target Cissokho.. Am I right in thinking he was also pulled early at the Emirates with Sakho moving to left back?

 

[SummerOnions]

At the moment i'd have Cissokho over Kelly

 

[LeTallecWiz]

At the moment i'd have Cissokho over Kelly

Me too ... Can't believe I said that.

I seriously hope we thump Arsenal. A good shellacking of them will destroy their self-belief and give us plenty of it to solidify our push in the last 13 games or so.

 

[Frogfish]

If Sakho is ready he goes straight in to nullify Giroud and the aerial threat (7 players from Arse have scored headed goals this season - more than any other team). I think Toure's error at WBA will see him dropped (though personally I'd prefer him to Skrtel as he is better on the ball and a better passer - we need to keep possession as much as possible). I am worried that Skrtel's shirt pulling and jumping on top of people will eventually concede a penalty though and against Arse and their pacy and tricky midfield it is a real concern.

Toure prefers the right and Sakho the left and that's what I'd play. I'd definitely bring Allen into midfield .. probably at the expense of Countinho, though that would be rough on him as he's played well the last couple of games.

Unfortunately there is no real option to Cisshoko at the moment, Kelly probably isn't a starting option.

------------------Mignolet-----------------
Flanagan---Toure--- Sakho---Cisshoko
--------------------Allen-----------------
-------------Hendo--Gerrard-----------
Sterling------------------------Suarez
------------------Studge-----------------

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

We can certainly win, no doubt about it, all depends on how well we defend, il'd bring in Allen for this to solidify the midfield, don't like the thought of dropping Coutinho or Sterling but theres no other choice.

Last season at home we had big holes in midfield against them, can't be letting that happen again.

 

[Lippy]

We tend to struggle with Arsenals style of football for some reason. You never know though.