"I completely lost it" says Suarez
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Of course that was the debate I was referring to, not at all to the obvious cultural difference and the possibility to educate rather than crucify. Did you read Bellamy's comments recently about Glen Johnson, or the one about Nobby Solano?
As for Bellamy and Suarez, well yeah they are winners, they would win games for their teams. I know you're going to go off on your bullshit statistical *I hate stats Rosco* analysis of why we're 7th because our best players aren't as good as we think they are, nothing to do with the mediocre bollocks they have to play alongside - as you tried to argue recently, by blaming the likes of Gerrard, Reina and Suarez, only to then reel off a list of your Lucas's and Johnson's as the real culprits, completely contradicting your point. Carry on.
The same thing he calls Johnson in training everyday !
it's not worth it ... can we not do another one of these debates? let's leave it as 95% of the site has now joined ranks with andy, ross and ryan in thinking suarez is a cunt, and the other 5% are cunts anyways, so no one cares.
now back to rumors - supposedly, ancelotti (who i guess is still odds on to be manager) will only sanction higuain sale if suarez is his direct replacement.
now back to rumors - supposedly, ancelotti (who i guess is still odds on to be manager) will only sanction higuain sale if suarez is his direct replacement.
Since when have you seen someone do it in Uruguay? Oh.
How do you educate a dumb cunt like Suarez ? If the FA had put him on some education programme, then he did the same thing again the likes you and other apologists would be on here banging on about his learning difficulties and how that needs to be accounted for and it's not fair. And how it's probably still all Ferguson's fault.
I wonder if you're deliberately misreading everything I type ?
If you have a team that is consistently in 7th place for a few years, and you have a consistent bunch of players in that team - it's not a stretch to say they might be a large part of the problem. That core has been - Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Lucas, Carragher, Johnson.
I don't hate stats, I hate the fact that people think just because people can count something they think it's relevant. Relevant stats are great, simple counting stats are shit on their own.
Right, so what's your argument then? You "gather" that it's a term used in that context, but your previous post said "when the fuck do you walk up to a black person and call him negro like he's your friend?". Maybe it's just a common descriptive term, it doesn't mean it's derogatory or that it was used in a malicious way, isn't it much the same as someone saying "hey gringo" or something similarly stupid but ultimately relatively inoffensive? Ferdinand called Ashley Cole a choc ice (and we all know the context), got a 50k fine and then laughed about it blatantly on Twitter saying that he would "say what the fuck he liked on his own Twitter account and wasn't going to apologise for it". You see why people might be a bit angry or bemused by the inconsistency of the whole situation, not to mention the hypocrisy of those condemning Suarez?
Just address every black man you meet as 'negro' in future and see how it goes Jimmy.
I play footy with many South Americans ... It's not a term they consider negative at all, and have used it with each other, and other folk (yemenites, myself etc) who aren't as white as the yanks and brits we play with (and I don't consider those bendechos my acquaintances!
)Ross - do you consider Australians racist b/c they do use term p**i too freely ...
Yeah but the point has been made, if it's a term that's widely used in Latin America then there should have been an element of educating in the punishment, it's not about you or me calling a black guy a derogatory racial term, it's about a South American using a cultural term from his own country in an environment where it's less savvy. It's already been stated by other players that it's a term used inoffensively amongst team mates.
My argument is that Evra isn't his friend, that's all. I also don't buy the whole cultural thing because he was in the Netherlands for like 6 years or something and it's strange that he hasn't understood "European customs" despite being in country with a large black population.
Remember this?
Sissoko demands severe penalty for Serb over racist abuse
Dominic Fifield
The Guardian, Thursday 3 November 2005
Mohamed Sissoko last night urged Uefa to take swift and severe action against the Anderlecht striker Nenad Jestrovic after the Serb's dismissal for allegedly racially abusing the Liverpool midfielder during Tuesday night's Champions League match.
However, Anderlecht and their disgraced striker suggested Kim Milton Nielsen's decision to dismiss Jestrovic was motivated by "arrogance" and an apparent long-standing antipathy between the Dane and the Belgian club.
Jestrovic, who was sent off only five minutes after entering from the bench, denies telling Sissoko to "Fuck off, black" during the 3-0 defeat at Anfield but faces a lengthy ban from Uefa competition when the governing body's disciplinary committee meet to discuss the incident on Monday. Nielsen yesterday confirmed he heard the Serb racially abuse Sissoko, and the Mali international insisted: "I know what I heard."
Sissoko added that he was saddened by the incident and would cooperate with Uefa if it wanted to take the matter further. "This type of behaviour deserves a serious punishment by Uefa because it sets a bad example for the whole world and must be settled rapidly. If Uefa calls me to give evidence I will tell the truth. I do not understand Jestrovic's attitude. It was the first time we came up against each other in the match and he seriously insulted me without provocation. "
It was the first time he had received such abuse from a fellow player, he added. "When I was with Valencia I received screams from rival supporters but this is the first time from a player."
Jestrovic, however, backed by the Anderlecht president Roger Vanden Stock, claimed he was suffering the legacy of two previous incidents involving Nielsen. Two seasons ago Anderlecht needed a draw in their final group match with Bayern Munich to qualify for the knockout phase when the Dane awarded a controversial penalty against Michal Zewlakow, the conversion of which condemned the visitors to a 1-0 defeat. And 12 months ago Nielsen sent off two Belgians in a 2-0 World Cup qualifying defeat in Spain.
"I'm very upset about what happened," Jestrovic said, "because I did nothing wrong. Sissoko provoked me, first by catching me with an elbow, then by calling me a son of a bitch in French. I replied: 'Fuck off.' That was all. Sissoko called me son of a bitch in the first game. I didn't react then but couldn't help myself this time. Even so, I didn't use racist abuse.
"The referee only heard my words, not Sissoko's. Or perhaps he only understands English, not French. Either way, Nielsen was very arrogant. I shouldn't be surprised by that. We know all about him after what happened with the national team in Spain and the penalty he gave in Munich. I went to his dressing room because I wanted to find out why he had sent me off. I didn't go there to apologise because I had nothing to apologise for. But all I got was an arrogant response. He comes across on the pitch as if he wants to be the star of the show, and it was the same afterwards."
Vanden Stock said: "This is no coincidence. Why are we always getting this referee for big games? It is strange it is always Nielsen when things happen in important games for us or the national team."
Nielsen is understood to be considering reporting Jestrovic for directing insulting language at him after the match. "I showed Jestrovic a red card because he said something racist to Sissoko," he said. "Uefa want strong action and sending him off was the proper course of action."
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Different context but somehow similar in that the word black is used.
What did Suarez actually say to Evra?
Negro, please...?
Why are we doing this?
SIDE ONE
SIDE TWO
Everyone knows where everyone stands ...
Can't we talk about Messi's tax issues?
SIDE ONE
SIDE TWO
Everyone knows where everyone stands ...
Can't we talk about Messi's tax issues?
You're missing the point Modo, there's an obvious and significant difference between saying "fuck off Black" and what happened with Suarez, the terms used are completely different in cultural meaning, dependent on the context obviously (there's only really one context with "fuck off Black"!!), but we won't ever really know will we what Suarez' intent was.
I've raised the point about Ferdinand umpteen times now and people haven't once commented or responded to it. Nothing against you, but it was posted by me around the whole incident and no one chose to comment on it in any terms, I think the difference in treatment and reaction in the press (and obviously fans too) is a complete polar opposite to what happened with Suarez.
I've raised the point about Ferdinand umpteen times now and people haven't once commented or responded to it. Nothing against you, but it was posted by me around the whole incident and no one chose to comment on it in any terms, I think the difference in treatment and reaction in the press (and obviously fans too) is a complete polar opposite to what happened with Suarez.
Rosco, "mate" in England, "negro" in Uruguay.
That's the idea behind cultural differences - what's perceived offensive in one place is not so in another.
I don't address people as "negro" because it's not part of my way of speaking.
Anyway, we've been through it too many times, and we won't convince each other to change sides.
And it's not part of your way of speaking for a reason Jimmy, and Suarez knows the reason too
Tell me what this "reason" is. Do you think there's a definite correlation between a cultural term and "fuck off black"?
That's just ignorant bollocks and you know it.
The reason I didn't comment the Ferdinand thing is because it's between two black people. OF COURSE, I see the double standards in this but somehow it is culturally accepted. I don't condone that language at all but it's just something we have to accept.
You're conveniently missing my point, Rosco.
But as i said - we've done this to death. I'll give it a rest
So Australians are racists for using the term p**is? How about Muslims for using the term 'k***ir' for non-believer, which is a racist term in South Africa? Or perhaps Suarez's biggest fault was he used a term he shouldn't use in a country where it is wrong - even if GlenJo has no issue with it (or even Evra if he's called it by Nani, Valencia etc)
I've heard both pronounced the exact same way ... be it by Muslims in SA, or by Arabs here. It's irrelevant where the term is used, if a term is racist in one country, it does not mean other countries follow suit.
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