Where does Klopp rank against all time league greats? If at all.
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He's right.
Klopp did something fantastic for us, I don't need to go into details.
But I've never, in my 40 years of supporting LFC seen a team collect so many silver medals.
EL - runner up
CL - runner up twice
PL - runner up twice.
I wish we had won at least one more league title and CL.
I'd definitely put him up there with the greats.
Klopp did something fantastic for us, I don't need to go into details.
But I've never, in my 40 years of supporting LFC seen a team collect so many silver medals.
EL - runner up
CL - runner up twice
PL - runner up twice.
I wish we had won at least one more league title and CL.
I'd definitely put him up there with the greats.
Fergie
Pep
Wenger
Jose
Klopp
Including european adventures, some more mild debate, as at least klopp has lost 3 European finals while here.
If it's just English fare, klopps 5th, and potentially a distant one at that. 1 league, 1 fa cup, 2 carabao is a decent haul, but hardly in the pantheon of greats.
Klopps success for us is bolstered by his best losses. No one else cares about them bar us and our "this means more" mentality.
I love him, and in no way shape or form am I criticising him; but ultimately we've fallen short for the teams we've had.
Pep
Wenger
Jose
Klopp
Including european adventures, some more mild debate, as at least klopp has lost 3 European finals while here.
If it's just English fare, klopps 5th, and potentially a distant one at that. 1 league, 1 fa cup, 2 carabao is a decent haul, but hardly in the pantheon of greats.
Klopps success for us is bolstered by his best losses. No one else cares about them bar us and our "this means more" mentality.
I love him, and in no way shape or form am I criticising him; but ultimately we've fallen short for the teams we've had.
Did klopp? Not many teams follow our path. More teams try and copy pep than copy us. And arguably 4th best. Paisley, Kenny, shanks and then klopp.
If xabi comes in and sweeps all before him down to klopps setup, then he can overtake shanks.
Possession based football is a Lot more prevalent than any other era of football.
He is obviously one of the league greats, not just an LFC great. This is widely acknowledged in the game.
However I'll make a personal clarification that some will not agree with : if as a manager you take your team to a final that is almost as good as winning it in my book. You could lose it to luck, to a poor reffing (VAR) decision, an unfortunate Red Card or any other vagary. That isn't on the manager.
Specifically in Klopp's case having to battle against 115 that have not only outspent us by about a billion but also illegally must be taken into account. Multiple times over 90 points but edged out by a point (that often came down to a fraction of an inch or luck) can not be dismissed as "but he didn't win it'.
Personally (and there has to be some parameters, such as over a minimum of 5 or 7 years for example) then Paisley is number 1 (no-one has come even close to his trophies per season).
Ferguson 2 (but only on longevity, 24 years). Mourinho is up there though he has a crap record away from Chelsea.
Wenger ? How and why? Pretty awful in Europe and only 3 titles in 22 years at Arsenal?
Guardiola has to be there - despite the 115 issues he managed the team.
1. Paisley
2. Ferguson
3. Dalglish
4. Guardiola
5. Klopp
However I'll make a personal clarification that some will not agree with : if as a manager you take your team to a final that is almost as good as winning it in my book. You could lose it to luck, to a poor reffing (VAR) decision, an unfortunate Red Card or any other vagary. That isn't on the manager.
Specifically in Klopp's case having to battle against 115 that have not only outspent us by about a billion but also illegally must be taken into account. Multiple times over 90 points but edged out by a point (that often came down to a fraction of an inch or luck) can not be dismissed as "but he didn't win it'.
Personally (and there has to be some parameters, such as over a minimum of 5 or 7 years for example) then Paisley is number 1 (no-one has come even close to his trophies per season).
Ferguson 2 (but only on longevity, 24 years). Mourinho is up there though he has a crap record away from Chelsea.
Wenger ? How and why? Pretty awful in Europe and only 3 titles in 22 years at Arsenal?
Guardiola has to be there - despite the 115 issues he managed the team.
1. Paisley
2. Ferguson
3. Dalglish
4. Guardiola
5. Klopp
A little, but equally with the teams we've had we should have won 2 more leagues and 2 more CLs. But we didn't. If we're judging teams based on what they didn't win, then klopps still at the bottom of the list
Rafa had us playing possession based football and trying to control games. It’s not unique to Pep
In essence I get this point, but ultimately; you've still got to buy the right players, no? Look at them after 1 billion investment this year?
Also true
Fine, neither changed the game. But one of them has had unparalleled dominance.
Nah, not with the squad we had. Coming second to City and Real is about right
For 1 of the CLs, agree. For the second one? No. We were the better team and it was a courtois motm performance that stopped that.
As for the league, I'd disagree. Even the years we had stupid points, it relied on another team being better than us, and us dropping points in stupid games.
It's an unpopular opinion, I get it. I've laid my points out and CBA rehashing them. To repeat;
1) he's absolutely a club legend, and estimations will only go up if his successor continues with success, or improves it.
2) people are allowed to disagree
Ask me in 3 months, my tune may have changed. But as of this moment, that's my opinion
1) he's absolutely a club legend, and estimations will only go up if his successor continues with success, or improves it.
2) people are allowed to disagree
Ask me in 3 months, my tune may have changed. But as of this moment, that's my opinion
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I suppose so. I think he hit a huge peak with Porto then slowly went downhill from there. Look at him now, fucking useless.
I'd say from his "conceded 15 goals" Chelsea team. From that point downhill
He can't have been that desperate for success; he went to spurs.
He was trying to recreate the Porto days of taking a small team to the top of European football.
For the league, City should win it more often than not. I don’t see how you can disagree with that and say we underperformed.
Jose not being able to beat Rafa in two CL semi finals is a much bigger underachievement and his league titles doesn’t make up for it
Cup games are cup games. It's why I've consistently said if we're including european stuff, it's closer. In English football, it isn't. They probably rue gudjonsons miss as much as we rue keitas fucking mental capabilities. its still micro moments.
The leagues harder to win and yes, klopps been against a financially superior city side . And? It's still management and tactics. Points are dropped when they shouldn't be. In those season's there were just fewer instances of where points were dropped.
Every manager comes against a strong rival. Ferguson did repeatedly, as did Jose and Wenger. But they won it more.
Excluding Europe seems weird to me and I can’t thinking of a manager’s legacy without it
Not so..Clough won the league twice
Ultimately, if you feel like he's 3rd in premier league all time managers, that's fine.
I don't. Yet.
I think Klopp’s better than Jose and it’s give and take with Wenger. Both transformed their clubs and I think Liverpool is in a better place now than when Klopp took over. Same as what Wenger achieved at Arsenal.
Both sacrificed trophies to build up their clubs.
