You've got a Freund in me
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Meh.
If Klopp recommends him, I'm good with that although he does look like an evil sinister bond villian....someone who looks like he'd be casted for the next Joker.
Anyway unless you can find a SD with a 100% record in bringing players in.....lets sign him up.
If Klopp recommends him, I'm good with that although he does look like an evil sinister bond villian....someone who looks like he'd be casted for the next Joker.
Anyway unless you can find a SD with a 100% record in bringing players in.....lets sign him up.
Both Freund and Mitchell had stints at RB Salzburg. Will be interesting to see if they can make signings that impact stronger leagues/where there are more competition for targets, esp. the former.
It makes sense to go full out the whoever Klopp wants on this. We've already suffered the drama of a manager and the transfer team not being fully aligned in their approach, and it's not something I want to return to.
Klopp is smart and humble enough not to want a yes man in that position, so for me it makes sense pursue his recommendation.
Klopp is smart and humble enough not to want a yes man in that position, so for me it makes sense pursue his recommendation.
Freund has only recently agreed to a new contract with Salzburg (2026), and Chelsea tried to sign him in Sept 2022. He rejected the approach and said it was out of the question to move to London.
Wonder if working with Klopp and Liverpool would be a bigger pull for him.
He has also seen the club sign Adeyemi, Szoboszlai, Sesko etc. His eye for talent is without question.
IMO it's absolutely vital that Klopp's preferred candidate is appointed given the likely restriction on transfer funds. The manager and the DOF will need to work hand in glove on this summer's signings whether or not Bellingham ends up here.
I'd stay well clear.
He comes across as a nice bloke and did extremely well for RB Salzburg but the expectations there are completely different to here.
He was expected to bring talent through the ranks, to develop them and sell them with a nice profit. The whole club at Salzburg is set up like that, there's hundreds of scouts all over the world, there's school programs, feeder clubs - you name it.
He is absolutely not used to work in an environment that demands instant success on the highest level. I mean look at our scouting department - the only thing they seem to do is watch Southampton games. We don't have the setup to make a manager like Freund work.
He comes across as a nice bloke and did extremely well for RB Salzburg but the expectations there are completely different to here.
He was expected to bring talent through the ranks, to develop them and sell them with a nice profit. The whole club at Salzburg is set up like that, there's hundreds of scouts all over the world, there's school programs, feeder clubs - you name it.
He is absolutely not used to work in an environment that demands instant success on the highest level. I mean look at our scouting department - the only thing they seem to do is watch Southampton games. We don't have the setup to make a manager like Freund work.
Ditto. There's little doubt about Freund's eye for talent but it's a bit of a risk. They are like a "smaller" version of Dortmund (i.e. stepping stone) - players going there know they will win the title, get regular games + European football and can move on for the right prices.
Chelsea would have been a better move, given how they "stockpile" players and are looking to create a network of sister clubs. However, Freund's rejection might mean he is after another sort of challenge (if he does want to go).
I wouldnt be against him joining us because of how Salzburg operate, and the big difference is that we would want these talented players to stay in the team. But we all see the value in selling players have value but wont make it in your squad as well.
As Holle pointed out though the network of scouts that are working for Salzburg is a big part of why he succeeds.
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying above that it would have to be Freund, just that it has to be an appointment that Klopp is happy about.
Aren’t we the ones complaining about not buying the likes of Enzo, Gvardiol or Bellingham early enough before their price rises astronomically? But now that the guy who specializes in exactly those kinds of investments is on the radar, somehow he’s “not a good fit for our model?”
In our financial situation, even if we can afford 1-2 ready-made stars, we would have to complement them with a few “gambles” on young players, otherwise we will end up with a minuscule squad or one of very uneven quality. We’re linked to something like a dozen youngish midfielders from around Europe at the moment; I’d like someone with a great eye for talent to make a decision on who is actually worth the gamble - our future may well depend on it.
In our financial situation, even if we can afford 1-2 ready-made stars, we would have to complement them with a few “gambles” on young players, otherwise we will end up with a minuscule squad or one of very uneven quality. We’re linked to something like a dozen youngish midfielders from around Europe at the moment; I’d like someone with a great eye for talent to make a decision on who is actually worth the gamble - our future may well depend on it.
The guy can unearth as much talent as he wants - they'd never been given enough time to develop here.
And talent identification wasn't exactly a big issue - it's more about our stance regarding moving for the "right players". I mean, we were told often how we have been tracking player X since his days at club Y - e.g. Nunes.
Freund, Mitchell and Krosche all seem to have done well in their previous/current clubs. Hopefully with the new appointment, there will be tweaks to our player transfer policy too.
Freund, Mitchell and Krosche all seem to have done well in their previous/current clubs. Hopefully with the new appointment, there will be tweaks to our player transfer policy too.
You have been here since August 2006. If you turn right we complain, turn left we complain, stay on course we complain.
My concern with all of these DOFs is their strike rate. That quote only presents their success? My understanding is that RB franchises hoover up talent. How many signings does he make every year and how many of them go on to become successes in top leagues. We dont have access to that information.
Our requirements are fairly unique. We need players who are relatively under the radar of Madrid, Chelsea and so are reasonably priced and have the potential to explode within a year due to Klopp's coaching and system. The Mane from RB might not do for us as he will need a couple of years of development and adjustment. What we want is a DOF who can identify Mane from Southampton below 50 million pounds.
Mane, Salah, Firmino, Robertson, Gini - none of them actively pursued by big clubs but laid the foundation of our great team. We dropped the ball by no longer targeting players of that profile. Does Freund have the capacity to do that?
Everton, Spurs have all tried with fancy DOFs from Europe with great reputation and they have all failed here.
One thing to remember is that Mane needed that regular playing time at Southampton to become the top player he was for us.
I dont think our set up with the right DOFs linked should be compared or decided with the failures of Brands or Paratici.
We need someone who shares the same ideas as Klopp, working towards the same goal and are in line with what type of player/age group/skill set we are looking for.
Both Everton and Spurs are in turmoil both in type of players transferred in, strategic way forward, manager and club philosophy.
We need someone who shares the same ideas as Klopp, working towards the same goal and are in line with what type of player/age group/skill set we are looking for.
Both Everton and Spurs are in turmoil both in type of players transferred in, strategic way forward, manager and club philosophy.
In most clubs the DoF ranks higher than the manager, in Liverpool's case, Klopp isn't going to report to anyone but the Board. So who ever comes in must be aware of that. Letting players walk for free has undermined the whole sell to buy strategy, so that needs to change. If the budget is £60m each season, then don't buy a player that's the finished article costing the whole budget, focus on players that have a low buyout clause.
Exactly. Both positions need to be filling with long term goals in mind, or one to just be more compliant.
It worked well at Chelsea (until this season). A continuous cycle of managers but a certain style of player continually purchased. Managers were brought in as nothing more than motivators and coaches, rather than someone who has a say in the signings. Probably why they were all short term managerial stays. Buy into the ethos or fuck off. It worked wel las well; as they've had near enough equal success as us over the last 7-8 years
Mate, I would have agreed with you a few years ago – but now it seems things have changed in football. Look at Real Madrid: they've signed Vinicius Jr. at 18 right out of Brazil and waited patiently (very un-Madrid like!) for him to gradually learn how to use his talent to benefit the team and suffered through the seasons when he was so erratic his own teammates wouldn't pass him the ball. Similar story with Rodrigo, Odegaard (whom they developed and sold for profit), Valverde, now Camavinga etc. Bayern are developing the likes of Mathys Tel and Musiala and before that moved Alphonso Davis to the first team at 19. Arsenal's success this season is predicated on patiently developing a core of very young players, supplemented by a few veterans (including aforementioned Odegaard who now looks like a seasoned veteran in comparison). Everywhere you look, the clubs – even big clubs with impatient fanbases competing for the big prizes every year – are more and more willing to invest in talented players early and absorb the inevitable inconsistency in performance that that comes with it.
So why do they do it? Perhaps the players are maturing faster these days, but I think it simply has become unaffordable – even for oil-rich clubs – to buy players who as you said "have the potential to explode within a year." That is by far the most prized category of the market and by the time these talents reach this stage of maturation they are likely already gone to a rival (or their price is astronomical, like it is now with Bellingham). So everyone is forced to pick the fruit off a tree while it's still green because otherwise someone else will.
Which brings us to the role of the DOF – in this new reality, a DOF who specializes in identifying young talent is exactly what's needed. The only difference between the RB Salzburg/Leipzig and Madrid/Bayern models is that the latter have higher quality veterans to supplement the young talents. 18 is the new 23 and we are not likely to sign another Mane or Salah in their mid-20's – now we need to find and recruit these talents at the same juncture as the likes of Salzburg/Leipzig do. So it follows that a DOF with a similar background to a Freund is probably a smart choice.
Those clubs are able to do so because of a set of circumstances which we don't have.
Madrid, Bayern are guaranteed CL every year. They have a strong base of players which guarantee them success every year. It is easy to integrate young talents in that setting. Again you are making the mistake of only looking at successes. Madrid paid 60 million euros for Jovic and 30 million euros for Reiner Jesus. They haven't worked out and it didn't change Madrids transfer strategy one bit. We can't afford to spend like that.
Arsenal have been spending like a CL club even though they haven't qualified for that in ages. They have comfortably outspent us.
Our owners didn't sanction a central defender even though we had like all of them injured by December. Madrid are ok spending 70 million euros on Endrick who will probably not be a contributing first team player for another 4 years. They have no issues spending more than 10 million euros on a player and sending them on loan to Portugal for 2 years to develop. We will probably be looking at extending Milners contract and still crying about the need for backup for Trent in four years time.
The right time to adopt the strategy you proposed was in 2019 2020 when our team was at its peak. That was the time we should have integrated talented youngsters into the team. We didn't. We bet on Minamino and Elliott.
Madrid and Bayern want to win every competition they enter again and again and again. Their obsession with winning is unmatched. Their thirst is unquenchable. Our owners and transfer committee are willing to write off seasons and seasons waiting for the mythical right player and winning the net spend trophy.
So if you want to look at just one aspect of how they do stuff and convince yourself we can achieve success by following that strategy without looking at the overall context, please continue to do so.
We had a model which worked for us. I would prefer to go back to that.
Madrid, Bayern are guaranteed CL every year. They have a strong base of players which guarantee them success every year. It is easy to integrate young talents in that setting. Again you are making the mistake of only looking at successes. Madrid paid 60 million euros for Jovic and 30 million euros for Reiner Jesus. They haven't worked out and it didn't change Madrids transfer strategy one bit. We can't afford to spend like that.
Arsenal have been spending like a CL club even though they haven't qualified for that in ages. They have comfortably outspent us.
Our owners didn't sanction a central defender even though we had like all of them injured by December. Madrid are ok spending 70 million euros on Endrick who will probably not be a contributing first team player for another 4 years. They have no issues spending more than 10 million euros on a player and sending them on loan to Portugal for 2 years to develop. We will probably be looking at extending Milners contract and still crying about the need for backup for Trent in four years time.
The right time to adopt the strategy you proposed was in 2019 2020 when our team was at its peak. That was the time we should have integrated talented youngsters into the team. We didn't. We bet on Minamino and Elliott.
Madrid and Bayern want to win every competition they enter again and again and again. Their obsession with winning is unmatched. Their thirst is unquenchable. Our owners and transfer committee are willing to write off seasons and seasons waiting for the mythical right player and winning the net spend trophy.
So if you want to look at just one aspect of how they do stuff and convince yourself we can achieve success by following that strategy without looking at the overall context, please continue to do so.
We had a model which worked for us. I would prefer to go back to that.
I agree in parts... but... and it's a pretty big but...
The big boys are taking bigger risks by signing younger players or bringing them through the academy but the risk is mitigated by going for premium talent. Their strategy isn't predicated on making undervalued left-field choices.
Vinicius and Rodrygo were amongst the best Brazil had to offer and Real paid the best part of 100M for a couple teenagers that had proven nothing. Tchouameni and Camavinga were bought after breakout seasons (the latter for a bargain though, yeah).
We don't have the pull or the money to sign the next Neymar or Vinicius out of Brazil. It represents too much of a risk for a club that has make sure it gets a return on every dollar spent. And as you rightly say, all the big clubs are now looking at young talent that have either broken through or are on the verge of breaking through - it's a very desirable and expensive market.
So yeah, I agree that a DoF that has an eye for talent is key but we are almost asking for the impossible - play the same game as a Benfica / Salzburg but we only want the successes.
We will have by the end of this summer around 10 players leaving on a free since Klopp has started. Negotiating contracts in the last 12 months remaining has also meant we lost millions had we negotiated 12 months prior.
That's been the biggest failure, and who do we blame for that?
That's been the biggest failure, and who do we blame for that?
FSG love internal promotions, don't they?
Peter Moore --> Billy Hogan
Michael Edwards --> Julian Ward
Neil Critchley --> Barry Lewtas
Ian Graham --> Will Spearman
You left out Julian Ward --> ...Binomial
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