Rafa

[Modo]

a) they haven't performed 'so badly' - they're just far behind (like us) of the leaders
b) knowing a club inside out has nothing to do with how well he manages, the club plays etc ... Hoddle knows Spurs inside out, would he succeed there? Bad example cuz Hoddle isn't a great manager but you get the point.
c) His run at Napoli, or other clubs, does nothing whatsoever to diminish what he did with us ...
d) It seems the man himself struggling himself to regain his mojo as a manager ...

Knowing the club in and out does play a part imo because he laid the foundation to what we have today.
For example, if it weren't for Rafa, would Sterling be in the club?
This might sound a bit "corny" to use a yank expression but maybe his heart really isn't in it?
From what I've read his family are still in Liverpool and he sees his kids maybe once every two weeks.

 

[moron]

Do you think he could of done any better tonight against this Madrid Side. .

No denying he was a master of European games..

I miss him..

Make no mistake if Rafa was in charge we would have beaten the shit out of that Real Madrid team. Really fucked them over big time.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Wibble

 

[Red Mullet]

Point I'm making the European nights under Rafa where not like anything else..

Tonight was a dull affair... Rafa had the Kop roaring... Teams feared Anfield.. We could beat anyone...

European nights where great...

Brendan had the Kop singing we're gonna win the league....

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Joke of a thread.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Joke of a mod too.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Bad imposter minion.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Knowing the club in and out does play a part imo because he laid the foundation to what we have today.
For example, if it weren't for Rafa, would Sterling be in the club?
This might sound a bit "corny" to use a yank expression but maybe his heart really isn't in it?
From what I've read his family are still in Liverpool and he sees his kids maybe once every two weeks.

Could be re 'his heart' ...

That he laid the foundation doesn't mean he would be able to take advantage of it ...

 

[Molbystwin]

JESUS CHRIST.

The best team in the World at present, and we have to listen to kneejerk wank like this.

Obviously we've got a bit lost, but where's the support and faith? From a title challenge out the blue to throwing the towel in at the first hurdle.

Some of the posts on here are a disgrace.

I also miss Rafa's knack in Europe but i'm with mark on this one... it really is bollox to talk about it now and it is long gone.

We've started the season with a whole bunch of new players and without our strikeforce of last season through sales or injury... ANY team probably even the fake oil clubs City and Chelsea would have struggled in our situation.

We were up against possibly the best team in the world.. and we got our arses handed to us... i can deal with it.

I can't deal with Mignolet, I'm baffled by Markovic and disgusted with Ballotelli but that's incidental...

I know that loads chimed in with support for Whelan at Wigan when he shut us down in our desire to maximise our overseas earnings by renegotiating foriegn TV rights but fuck that... Real kicked our fucking arse because they have the financial clout to fuck everyone off it is as simple as that... Only 2 clubs in the premiership can come close to their power financially and that's only through the largesse and vested interest/soft power of oil men.

I'm getting increasingly fucked off seeing people wearing Chelsea shirts 6000 miles away here in S.E. Asia, they really don't know they are wearing fake shirts of a fake team. Like it or not the game is global not local anymore, how many of our best players do we need to sell? What will happen when Sterling truly becomes world class?

We are trailing so far behind these cunts money wise it's as laughable as it is undeniable, don't kid yourselves that collective bargaining is good for us it really really isn't....

Real beat us because of money and the realisation that you look after no.1 first.

They trade on their brand and make fucking money, lots of dirty capitalist money.

I couldn't give a tuppeny fuck about Swansea being able to by Bony or how competitive the league is, not my problem, we got humped last night because we are simply not in the same ball park financially and i reckon we could be....

Last night is where the game truly is like it or not and we are so off the pace it is daft.

 

[keniget]

If nothing else, last night seems to have made everyone care again.

It's been a bit of a dismal start to the season so far with us looking fairly shit and looking like losing every game. Easy to create a "fuck it" atmosphere.

Coming up against Real Madrid on the European stage and getting outclassed on the other hand... it's a sharp reminder of how things have been over the last few years. Sucks.

 

[leftpeg]

Are we really debating what would have happened if a manager who left us four years ago was still in charge? Let's develop the argument...that Paisley fella knew a thing or two about winning in Europe, I bet we'd have won if he was still in charge.

 

[Athens]

Are we really debating what would have happened if a manager who left us four years ago was still in charge? Let's develop the argument...that Paisley fella knew a thing or two about winning in Europe, I bet we'd have won if he was still in charge.

Yeah but think of the type of money that would involve.

 

[mark1975]

If nothing else, last night seems to have made everyone care again.

It's been a bit of a dismal start to the season so far with us looking fairly shit and looking like losing every game. Easy to create a "fuck it" atmosphere.

Coming up against Real Madrid on the European stage and getting outclassed on the other hand... it's a sharp reminder of how things have been over the last few years. Sucks.

It does yeah, I think that's about the size of it.

We've come from the dregs of Rafa's legacy, the depths of Hodgson's brief farce, through the stable and then off the rails Dalglish era, to letting a young man have a shot at it. We had a season in 2012/2013 that started as catastrophic as the previous two, only for stability to then kick in and a gradual upturn in form, culminating in an unexpected whirlwind finale to last season. A season that many expected to be about bedding in players and getting back in Europe. Instead we raised the bar and catipulted ourselves to a title challenge, with the whole of Europe (it seemed) in awe at our style.

This is what really fucking grates me, and yes I know I can be the greatest sentimentalist on here, but people are quick enough to use our famous mantle, YNWA, but any sign of the shit hitting the fan and we suddenly resort to cut throat, knee jerk responses.

This is the guys "first" stint at the CL. He's not a weathered manager who's rubbed shoulders with the top European managers in the game, he's a rooky who's working his way in. Like with young players, like Sterling, you can allow some slack as part of the learning curve, or he's never going to learn.

We've just faced THE form team in Europe at the moment. Regardless of what happened in yester-years, when we faced those big Spanish sides, they weren't as strong a side in terms of style and execution as this Madrid side, regardless of personnel, it was pre Barca hitting their stride and dominating consistently, Ronaldinho was on the wain, etc. Madrid were dire when we played them back then. It's not a slight on Rafa, they were great results and he knew how to grind out wins in Europe, experience got him to that stage along with the nous for knowing when to shut up shop.

We need to achieve that under Rodgers, but by the same token, Rafa's sides rarely hit the levels that we did last season in terms of attacking flair (and Rodgers got there in his second season). And when Rafa did, he had a "peak" Gerrard and Torres at his disposal. He struggled to do it with other players before that. And yeah I know we won the CL but we struggled in the qualifier as badly as we have performed this season and we were humiliated against Milan in the first half as much as we were in the first half yesterday - not to mention our league form, which was pants. Like I said, it's a learning curve, Rafa came from a continental background and had experience at the highest level by that stage, Rodgers is getting there and deserves the time to get it right. We can't blindly ignore his faults, but I'm not going to crucify him or rewrite history because he's struggling to hit the heights in his first shot at it.

You could reel off a dozen 50-70 year old managers who could have got closer to grinding something out last night, but it's all ifs and buts. Would we have done better with Rafa? Maybe, but what's the point in mulling over it? We would have still have had to deal with his myriad of other idiosyncrasies that became as predictable as his ability on the European stage.

As for Modo, he went off on on recently and said he was going to stop posting because he'd fucked people off that much. He's back again, trolling, quoting himself, acting like a prick and then when he knows he's fucked people off, he cares to explain himself in a rational way, once the damage is done. I'm loathed to sit here watching the usual curve of behaviour culminate again in him ruining every thread with the same irritating agenda driven shit. So I'll stop replying and just ignore his bollocks. Enjoy him, the next time he fucks off half the forum, someone else can sort it out.

 

[leftpeg]

It does yeah, I think that's about the size of it.

We've come from the dregs of Rafa's legacy, the depths of Hodgson's brief farce, through the stable and then off the rails Dalglish era, to letting a young man have a shot at it. We had a season that started as catastrophic as the last two, only for stability to then kick in and a gradual upturn in form, culminating in an unexpected whirlwind finale to last season. A season that many expected to be about bedding in players and getting back in Europe. Instead we raised the bar and catipulted ourselves to a title challenge, with the whole of Europe (it seemed) in awe at our style.

This is what really fucking grates me, and yes I know I can be the greatest sentimentalist on here, but people are quick enough to use our famous mantle, YNWA, but any sign of the shit hitting the fan and we suddenly resort to cut throat, knee jerk responses.

This is the guys "first" stint at the CL. He's not a weathered manager who's rubbed shoulders with the top European managers in the game, he's a rooky he's working his way in. Like with young players, like Sterling, you can allow some slack as part of the learning curve, or he's never going to learn.

We've just faced THE form team in Europe at the moment. Regardless of what happened in yester-years, when we faced those big Spanish sides, they weren't as strong a side in terms of style and execution as this Madrid side, regardless of personnel, it was pre Barca hitting their stride and dominating consistently, Ronaldinho was on the wain, etc. Madrid were dire when we played them back then. It's not a slight on Rafa, they were great results and he knew how to grind out wins in Europe, experience got him to that stage along with the nous for knowing when to shut up shop.

We need to achieve that under Rodgers, but by the same token, Rafa's sides rarely hit the levels that we did last season in terms of attacking flair (and Rodgers got there in his second season). And when Rafa did, he had a "peak" Gerrard and Torres at his disposal. He struggled to do it with other players before that. And yeah I know we won the CL but we struggled in the qualifier as badly as we have performed this season and we were humiliated against Milan in the first half as much as we were in the first half yesterday - not to mention our league form, which was pants. Like I said, it's a learning curve, Rafa came from a continental background and had experience at the highest level by that stage, Rodgers is getting there and deserves the time to get it right. We can't blindly ignore his faults, but I'm not going to crucify him or rewrite history because he's struggling to hit the heights in his first shot at it.

You could reel off a dozen 50-70 year old managers who could have got closer to grinding something out last night, but it's all ifs and buts. Would we have done better with Rafa? Maybe, but what's the point in mulling over it? We would have still have had to deal with his myriad of other idiosyncrasies that became as predictable as his ability on the European stage.

Great post.

 

[Holle]

Rafa?

Great idea. I'd love to see how Rickie Lambert does on the right wing.

 

[redhorizon2]

Make no mistake if Rafa was in charge we would have beaten the shit out of that Real Madrid team. Really fucked them over big time.

Loooooooooooooooooool

 

[Judge Jules]

It does yeah, I think that's about the size of it.

We've come from the dregs of Rafa's legacy, the depths of Hodgson's brief farce, through the stable and then off the rails Dalglish era, to letting a young man have a shot at it. We had a season in 2012/2013 that started as catastrophic as the previous two, only for stability to then kick in and a gradual upturn in form, culminating in an unexpected whirlwind finale to last season. A season that many expected to be about bedding in players and getting back in Europe. Instead we raised the bar and catipulted ourselves to a title challenge, with the whole of Europe (it seemed) in awe at our style.

This is what really fucking grates me, and yes I know I can be the greatest sentimentalist on here, but people are quick enough to use our famous mantle, YNWA, but any sign of the shit hitting the fan and we suddenly resort to cut throat, knee jerk responses.

This is the guys "first" stint at the CL. He's not a weathered manager who's rubbed shoulders with the top European managers in the game, he's a rooky who's working his way in. Like with young players, like Sterling, you can allow some slack as part of the learning curve, or he's never going to learn.

We've just faced THE form team in Europe at the moment. Regardless of what happened in yester-years, when we faced those big Spanish sides, they weren't as strong a side in terms of style and execution as this Madrid side, regardless of personnel, it was pre Barca hitting their stride and dominating consistently, Ronaldinho was on the wain, etc. Madrid were dire when we played them back then. It's not a slight on Rafa, they were great results and he knew how to grind out wins in Europe, experience got him to that stage along with the nous for knowing when to shut up shop.

We need to achieve that under Rodgers, but by the same token, Rafa's sides rarely hit the levels that we did last season in terms of attacking flair (and Rodgers got there in his second season). And when Rafa did, he had a "peak" Gerrard and Torres at his disposal. He struggled to do it with other players before that. And yeah I know we won the CL but we struggled in the qualifier as badly as we have performed this season and we were humiliated against Milan in the first half as much as we were in the first half yesterday - not to mention our league form, which was pants. Like I said, it's a learning curve, Rafa came from a continental background and had experience at the highest level by that stage, Rodgers is getting there and deserves the time to get it right. We can't blindly ignore his faults, but I'm not going to crucify him or rewrite history because he's struggling to hit the heights in his first shot at it.

You could reel off a dozen 50-70 year old managers who could have got closer to grinding something out last night, but it's all ifs and buts. Would we have done better with Rafa? Maybe, but what's the point in mulling over it? We would have still have had to deal with his myriad of other idiosyncrasies that became as predictable as his ability on the European stage.

As for Modo, he went off on on recently and said he was going to stop posting because he'd fucked people off that much. He's back again, trolling, quoting himself, acting like a prick and then when he knows he's fucked people off, he cares to explain himself in a rational way, once the damage is done. I'm loathed to sit here watching the usual curve of behaviour culminate again in him ruining every thread with the same irritating agenda driven shit. So I'll stop replying and just ignore his bollocks. Enjoy him, the next time he fucks off half the forum, someone else can sort it out.

Excellent post as per.

This morning I find myself in the strange position of feeling quite optimistic after a 3-0 home defeat. I thought the way we acquitted ourselves - against the European champions - after half-time was very encouraging, and it made me wonder what the score (not necessarily the result) might have been if we'd played that line-up for the whole 90, because there were times when we definitely worried them. It's easy to forget that even last season we didn't fully hit our stride until the New Year, and I'm now hopeful we can do that again this season.

 

[Fabio]

Madrid definitely stepped off the pedal in the second half.

And even in the second half casillas had fuck all to do

 

[6TimesaRed]

Bad imposter minion.

Racist

 

[6TimesaRed]

Madrid definitely stepped off the pedal in the second half.

And even in the second half casillas had fuck all to do

No strikers on the pitch... I guess.. The spped and intensity from our game is gone..

unsuprisingly that changed when Balotteli was subbed..



I miss Suarez too


:bawls:

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Excellent post as per.

This morning I find myself in the strange position of feeling quite optimistic after a 3-0 home defeat. I thought the way we acquitted ourselves - against the European champions - after half-time was very encouraging, and it made me wonder what the score (not necessarily the result) might have been if we'd played that line-up for the whole 90, because there were times when we definitely worried them. It's easy to forget that even last season we didn't fully hit our stride until the New Year, and I'm now hopeful we can do that again this season.

The whole dynamic of the game changed in the second half, we can't really read too much into it. I'd take more optimism from our play up until their first goal.

I agree that we will get better as the season goes on though. We just need a little bit of luck. Namely Sturridge staying fit for a while.

 

[6TimesaRed]

This is my take on the whole Rafa point..


There's been poorer LFC sides take the field against a giant but we've always been in their faces, snarling and snapping. Never in my life have I seen a Liverpool team beaten so convincingly in Europe in their own back yard..

 

[themn]

This is my take on the whole Rafa point..


There's been poorer LFC sides take the field against a giant but we've always been in their faces, snarling and snapping. Never in my life have I seen a Liverpool team beaten so convincingly in Europe in their own back yard..

Hmmm...


Andy Heaton @Andrew_Heaton · 28m28 minutes ago
There's been poorer LFC sides take the field against a giant but we've always been in their faces, snarling and snapping.

 

[mark1975]

This morning I find myself in the strange position of feeling quite optimistic after a 3-0 home defeat. I thought the way we acquitted ourselves - against the European champions - after half-time was very encouraging, and it made me wonder what the score (not necessarily the result) might have been if we'd played that line-up for the whole 90, because there were times when we definitely worried them. It's easy to forget that even last season we didn't fully hit our stride until the New Year, and I'm now hopeful we can do that again this season.

In the pre-match thread, I posted pretty much the team we had in the second half, except I had Can in for Allen. It's alot more fluid, hungry and it gives the opposition alot more to think about. We still lack a killer edge, but at least it gives us half a chance just through sheer will and determination to succeed in attack.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Hmmm...


Andy Heaton @Andrew_Heaton · 28m28 minutes ago
There's been poorer LFC sides take the field against a giant but we've always been in their faces, snarling and snapping.

Yes I'm relating to Andy Heaton recent Twittering

Exactly how I look at it..

 

[Molbystwin]

Yes I'm relating to Andy Heaton recent Twittering

Exactly how I look at it..

Its harsh IMO, the first 20 minutes till Ronaldo scored a worldy we were right in it then naturally perhaps our heads went down and we gifted them 2 goals...

Cristiano Ronaldo is a goal machine and the best player in the world...

The other 2 goals were not acceptable however.

I would have loved to see how we would have got on with Suarez and Sturridge up top but...

Ballotelli swapping shirts at half time and then getting subbed is a minor annoyance, I reckon its good management to sub a player strolling around and doing fucking ridiculous things like that... It's also a gimme in terms of pointing out to the idiot that it will most likely be the only chance he will ever get to wear a Real shirt because they most certainly wont come knocking for him... he is in the last chance saloon and he better wise up to it.

What fucked me off most of all was the third goal...it seems we've brought all the bad things from last season along but are missing the good...

If you come for the ball then you get the fucking ball its that simple, and that is one criticism I will level at Rodgers .... Letomign is fucking garbage and not up to the job and he wasn't last season either.

Loads of people have compared him to the dog end of Reina, fair point perhaps.... but it's academic now dragging up the past as it is just that... my only point on Mig and one which does hold true is that EVERYONE would swap out Mig for the Reina of his first 4 seasons... that player is gone now but there must be better than Mig and we had plenty of cash to fix it. He makes me nervous 6000 miles away... fuck knows what he does to the defender 6 yards away... 60M pounds on defenders... are all of them shit??

I cant shake the feeling that a good keeper it will improve that defence immeasurably, they wouldn't have to be young and flashy or spectacular, we need a calm head in there.

As for the raking uneccesarily over Rafa thing... NOBODY was a bigger fan than me but I like Rodgers and he simply needs time not that half arsed criticism.

I LOVE the way we knock it around and even in the midst of the embarrasment of yesterday i'm confident that we're will get back on track when we get a semblance of a strikeforce back in there.

If you look close enough you can still see the quick passing style it's just we lack the bite and pace upfront we had previously... It's eminently fixable.

Credit to Real, cunts, they the best team in the world and they showed it, i wish we had had all our ability on display and in form but we don't right now...

Bring Rafa back.... ffs... No need to even mention it.

 

[Modo]

As for Modo, he went off on on recently and said he was going to stop posting because he'd fucked people off that much. He's back again, trolling, quoting himself, acting like a prick and then when he knows he's fucked people off, he cares to explain himself in a rational way, once the damage is done. I'm loathed to sit here watching the usual curve of behaviour culminate again in him ruining every thread with the same irritating agenda driven shit. So I'll stop replying and just ignore his bollocks. Enjoy him, the next time he fucks off half the forum, someone else can sort it out.

Talk about being obsessed. It's getting boring now Mark.

What have I trolled about this time? I think my opinion counts as trolling for you.

Also @Fabio you share private conversations much?

 

[SummerOnions]

Quoting yourself isn't that weird

 

[Wizardry]

@peterhague I think history makes it very clear that a safe coach is not what we need.

The hardest thing in change management is to get things moving - inertia is the toughest force to overcome. Once it's moving it simply requires a nudge now and again - unless there is a very defined pathway it needs to follow.

History tells us that success in the EPL comes - consistently - to teams with a strong attacking nature who can simply swat opposition away almost as much through style as through technique. In recent years the same is true of the CL.

What we need, therefore, is a manager or coach of some vision to be able to create a successful culture in this manner. Rodgers proved he knew how to start the movement and how to create that style. Now he needs to prove he can create that culture. A "safe" coach doesn't do that; what we need is a visionary coach who can continue this work with resources which aren't going to match the city's or Madrid's of the world.

I'll also suggest that this is a reason not to go back to Rafa. It's simply not his style and I believe football has moved on from his approach in the last 5 - 10 years. I personally think there's no way in the world he would have had us overcoming Barca in 08 to 11 and certainly wouldn't have been able to overcome Madrid in the form they're currently in. I remain convinced the only way to overcome that kind of power is to hit them first - very much our pattern from last year.

Rodger's management here could very easily be defined by the January transfer window. I don't think he ever wanted Mario as I've said elsewhere. I've also explained why I think he's one match winner short and that's what needs to be adjusted in January. His approach requires multiple points of attacking potency and he doesn't have it just now. If he get's that sorted in January then he has, IMO, just a keeper to really get worked out.

Whether he can do this; whether he is the one to build the culture necessary I'm not sure but he's the most obviously appropriate choice right now.

 

[Modo]

Quoting yourself isn't that weird

It's a criminal offence, apparently.