Coincidence?

[Ryan]

So, since Kenny/Comolli took over in January we've signed :

Suarez
Carroll
Adam
Henderson
Downing

Have I missed anything? That sub keeper doesn't count btw.

5 players, 4 of them left footed (guess you could say Sexuarez is equally good off both feet I suppose). That just a mere coincidence, or an actual rationale behind signing some of that lot?

I don't think the importance of balance across a side can be underestimated at all. Wenger used to bang on about it's significance in midfield, hence his love for Petit/Edu/Wilkshere in CM.
One look at our side over the last couple of years demonstrates how right-foot heavy we were. Sticking Maxi/Cole/Gerrard/Meireles/Kuyt out on the left wing just fucks up the whole show.
Similarly, two/three right footed CM's means you're invariably going to go one way, and are thus easier to defend.

Not a coincidence at all methinks.

Now for a decent left back.

 

[Modo]

You're definitely on to something.
We have a left footed CB in Agger as well.

I'm mostly excited about having a left footed centre midfielder (Adam). Should improve our attacks on the right flank.

We do need a left fullback though.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

One of the reasons I'm in favour of Downing is because of Reira. He wasn't anything special but his first full season with us (I think) resulted in our only league title challenge in the last 15 years. The sheer fact we had that balance, as you say Ryan, meant we functioned far, far better as a team in attack and defence.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Obviously the league title challenge was down to a lot more than Reira but you get my point.

 

[Ryan]

I do I suppose, but Downing played pretty much the best season of his life last year and a lot of it came from the right wing.

Not saying he can't play on the left or antyhing, but he's not the touchline-hugging, byline-getting, beautiful-crossing left winger some are making him out to be.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

Yeah, I agree there are better left wingers out there we could be looking at but it's clear he is our first choice and will be played on the LW.

 

[Home and A Gay]

We also win a fair percentage of our games when Aurelio plays.

Either way the signings we have made so far allows for tactically versatillity and any amount of different formations.
Inter-changable versaitaille players become key during injury crisis,suspension crisis etc,etc.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46097.msg1363992#msg1363992 date=1310512654]
So, since Kenny/Comolli took over in January we've signed :

Suarez
Carroll
Adam
Henderson
Downing

Have I missed anything? That sub keeper doesn't count btw.

5 players, 4 of them left footed (guess you could say Sexuarez is equally good off both feet I suppose). That just a mere coincidence, or an actual rationale behind signing some of that lot?
[/quote]

Suarez is pretty right footed IMO. And I think it's coincidental that both Adam and Carroll are left-footed to be honest.

I think largely the shape and balance to the side should be provided by the full-backs (and thus I'd really rather have a left-footed left back rather than sticking Glenjo or Kelly at left-back all season again). I really couldn't give two hoots about whether our left winger is left footed or sticks to the byline and swings in crosses with his left peg. All I really want is someone with pace, skill and the intelligence to play as part of an attacking three/four. That really is my real problem with Downing.

Weren't you an advocate of signing quality attacking players and simply letting them figure out how to play together rather than buying inferior players because they suited our apparent 'needs' more?

 

[Peatcheo]

I think Adam and Downing are the most important part to you argument about giving the midfield balance and a new direction, a lot of people seem to be suggesting that they were targeted as a pair, Kenny apparently wanted both not one or the other.

 

[keniget]

I find myself in a bit of an odd situation. I'm not particularly enthused about our summer transfer activity, but I'm still quite looking forward to the new season.

I guess that's come as a result of hitting rock bottom with Roy and then the euphoria of not being quite as shit with Kenny. Onwards and upwards hopefully.

 

[tombrown]

Downing will play LB.













(oops just slipped into a timewarp)

 

[Hansern]

Agreed Ryan, some very good thoughts here. You can also say that the players we have are very good passerss of the ball, which seems to fit in nicely with the pass and move.

Re Downing you're right that in his first two seasons at Villa he played mostly on the right. But thisvseason, with Young centrally and Albrighton right, he has been mostly out left. In which has been his best season. The balance in the team will be entirely different with both Stanley Devastating andvCharlie Adam in the side.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=46097.msg1364019#msg1364019 date=1310533965]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46097.msg1363992#msg1363992 date=1310512654]
So, since Kenny/Comolli took over in January we've signed :

Suarez
Carroll
Adam
Henderson
Downing

Have I missed anything? That sub keeper doesn't count btw.

5 players, 4 of them left footed (guess you could say Sexuarez is equally good off both feet I suppose). That just a mere coincidence, or an actual rationale behind signing some of that lot?
[/quote]

Weren't you an advocate of signing quality attacking players and simply letting them figure out how to play together rather than buying inferior players because they suited our apparent 'needs' more?
[/quote]

I was, and still aim.

I'm just trying to deal with what we've got, and understand the rationale behind 'em all. Trust me, I'd far rather have those types than the Downings.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=46097.msg1364019#msg1364019 date=1310533965]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46097.msg1363992#msg1363992 date=1310512654]
So, since Kenny/Comolli took over in January we've signed :

Suarez
Carroll
Adam
Henderson
Downing

Have I missed anything? That sub keeper doesn't count btw.

5 players, 4 of them left footed (guess you could say Sexuarez is equally good off both feet I suppose). That just a mere coincidence, or an actual rationale behind signing some of that lot?
[/quote]

Suarez is pretty right footed IMO. And I think it's coincidental that both Adam and Carroll are left-footed to be honest.

I think largely the shape and balance to the side should be provided by the full-backs (and thus I'd really rather have a left-footed left back rather than sticking Glenjo or Kelly at left-back all season again). I really couldn't give two hoots about whether our left winger is left footed or sticks to the byline and swings in crosses with his left peg. All I really want is someone with pace, skill and the intelligence to play as part of an attacking three/four. That really is my real problem with Downing.

Weren't you an advocate of signing quality attacking players and simply letting them figure out how to play together rather than buying inferior players because they suited our apparent 'needs' more?
[/quote]

Interesting post, but I disagree with the second para. I'd far rather the player further forward carried the greater attacking responsibility, hence in my book it's far more important that he be left-footed than that the LB should be. And the logic of not being bothered about whether we have specialist winger(s) continues to escape me, given the general agreement on here that (a) we've suffered from signing and picking too many jacks-of-all-trades over recent years and (b) we've shown a chronic lack of width during that time.

 

[HC]

*agrees with JJ for the first time in aaaaaages*

 

[FoxForceFive]

It matters not if you're wrong footed at the back, on midfield or on the wings.

No matter where it is you lose width, become more predictable & reduce options, effectively you're giving the opposition a space & time advantage.

If it's balanced down both sides the other side has to work harder.

 

[Judge Jules]

Don't agree with that either, because it seems to me to go to the other extreme. We're just as likely to become more predictable and reduce options by channelling *all* our play down the wings, as opposed to not enough of it. Coming inside sometimes is something we need to be able to do, and players playing on their "correct" wing are actually less likely to be able to do it. Where I disagree with dmishra is in how best to achieve the mix I think we need.

 

[FoxForceFive]

But if you have the correct footed players from back to front you can swap sides whenever to take advantage of the oppositions favoured foot by cutting inside or spreading play.

Not to hark on too much about him but fergie does this all over the pitch & always has done.

 

[Judge Jules]

Don't think "all over the pitch" is quite right (he never played Nevillemodo at LB for example) but fair point as regards players in midfield and attack. That approach is pretty much what I was arguing for in my reply to dmishra above.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46097.msg1364057#msg1364057 date=1310544644]
It matters not if you're wrong footed at the back, on midfield or on the wings.

No matter where it is you lose width, become more predictable & reduce options, effectively you're giving the opposition a space & time advantage.

If it's balanced down both sides the other side has to work harder.
[/quote]

That's far too simplistic. Advantage in terms of space and time, especially in the final third, is obtained largely through players who have, as I pointed out, by your attacking three/fours having sufficient pace, skill, and intelligence. Theoretically, how this works is that such players have the ability and know when to either pull out wide to pull full backs out of position, and give the attacking third an outlet, and whene exactly to cut in, and streamline the attack to cut through gaps in the centre. Your Henry, Ronaldos, Messis, Robbens etc. are all masters of it.

Having a player who's stuck out wide permanently is never really a good idea (and if it happens, more often that not it is down to the limitations in the said player's pace, ability or intelligence), and results more in predictability than unpredictability as you seem to be suggesting. I think that's a pretty definite reason as to why almost all top teams over the last decade have abandoned the dogged 4-4-2 for a 4-2-3-1 or a more fluid/flexible 4-4-2. A natural consequence of that really is having full-backs with the ability to provide width as your attacking players are often going to be cutting in.

 

[dmishra]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=46097.msg1364049#msg1364049 date=1310544097]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=46097.msg1364019#msg1364019 date=1310533965]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46097.msg1363992#msg1363992 date=1310512654]
So, since Kenny/Comolli took over in January we've signed :

Suarez
Carroll
Adam
Henderson
Downing

Have I missed anything? That sub keeper doesn't count btw.

5 players, 4 of them left footed (guess you could say Sexuarez is equally good off both feet I suppose). That just a mere coincidence, or an actual rationale behind signing some of that lot?
[/quote]

Suarez is pretty right footed IMO. And I think it's coincidental that both Adam and Carroll are left-footed to be honest.

I think largely the shape and balance to the side should be provided by the full-backs (and thus I'd really rather have a left-footed left back rather than sticking Glenjo or Kelly at left-back all season again). I really couldn't give two hoots about whether our left winger is left footed or sticks to the byline and swings in crosses with his left peg. All I really want is someone with pace, skill and the intelligence to play as part of an attacking three/four. That really is my real problem with Downing.

Weren't you an advocate of signing quality attacking players and simply letting them figure out how to play together rather than buying inferior players because they suited our apparent 'needs' more?
[/quote]

Interesting post, but I disagree with the second para. I'd far rather the player further forward carried the greater attacking responsibility, hence in my book it's far more important that he be left-footed than that the LB should be. And the logic of not being bothered about whether we have specialist winger(s) continues to escape me, given the general agreement on here that (a) we've suffered from signing and picking too many jacks-of-all-trades over recent years and (b) we've shown a chronic lack of width during that time.
[/quote]

If my post gave the impression that I'm averse to having a winger, then I trust my above post clarifies what I actually meant.

Really, what I want is a player with pace, ability and intelligence. Whether he's a 'specialist left/right winger' in the sense that he sticks to the left/right flank and crosses the ball in with his left/right peg really doesn't matter to me.

Downing and Ronaldo - who would you rather have? The specialist left winger, or the the right footed wing-forward with pace, ability and intelligence?

Or if that example is too extreme, Downing or an injury-free McManaman, who would you rather have? I know who I'd pick.

 

[Judge Jules]

I see what you're saying, but we'll have to agree to differ. On the evidence of too many recent seasons, if we don't fetch at least one specialist in we're just not going to get the width we need.

Fair point about the Downing/Ronaldo comparison but I'd take Downing over McMoneyman, who was by a street the more talented player but whose final pass/shot was too often iffy even in his best days for us, which ended at least a season before he actually left.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=46097.msg1364057#msg1364057 date=1310544644]
It matters not if you're wrong footed at the back, on midfield or on the wings.

No matter where it is you lose width, become more predictable & reduce options, effectively you're giving the opposition a space & time advantage.

If it's balanced down both sides the other side has to work harder.
[/quote]

In midfield and up front, yes. At the back, no Jon - It does matter.