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Poll VAR - time to bin it?

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Would you completely get rid of VAR?

  • Total voters
    56
rurikbird

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member


I don’t have a very strong opinion on this, but have to say Goldbrige almost convinced me here. The way it currently is being implemented clearly doesn’t work, perhaps an automated offside check can be added when there is fool-proof technology for it, but has the quality of the decision-making on penalties and red cards really significantly improved with VAR? Maybe it has, but it doesn’t feel like it. It certainly seems like the quality of the in-game officiating has decreased and perhaps will continue to deteriorate as the in-game refs and TV refs keep losing confidence in their own decision-making and compounding each other’s mistakes.

Also if the league-wide increase in injuries can be semi-convincingly attributed to the stop-start nature of the VAR reviews (because the players’ muscles cool off while they wait an unspecified amount of time for the decision and then have to restart the game at maximum intensity again), then the case for getting rid becomes almost unassailable - surely the health and well-being of the players is more important than an occasional handball that wasn’t spotted by the ref.

Curious about your thoughts and votes in the poll.
 
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Voted no but hated it since day 1. We just need to work out what can be decided correctly without consequence and what can’t then go with the former.

I can’t watch the Goldbridge vid at the moment but did he also mention letting offside bits of play continue? That’s another possible cause of injury.

I also detest when an offside isn’t given and the attacking team win a corner, drives me mad.

Ideally we get some real time red light / green light system for offsides so we’re not wasting so much time, risking injury or killing the goal celebrations. I’d take that even if it means going backwards with the offside rule and including attackers not interfering with play.
 
No way do we bin it. I completely beleieve that Klopp needs it for his high line tactics.
 
Goal line 100%, makes sense. Offside I don't mind buying into, even though they fuck it up. Anything else, no. The sending offs for tackles are stupid.
 
Modo said:
So you're fine with going back to a time where players could dive in the box and get a pen cause they managed to fool the ref?
Or the opposite, when clear pens weren't given?
Click to expand...
You make it sound like that still isn't happening? It is. VAR adds nothing. Otherwise why are we still talking about it every week? Goal-line and off-side and nothing more, that's what it should be used for.
 
moron said:
No way do we bin it. I completely beleieve that Klopp needs it for his high line tactics.
Click to expand...

I’ll say something controversial - I like that Klopp takes advantage of it, but as a fan I don’t particularly enjoy the reliance on razor-thin offsides in a high line as a defensive tactic. Football would be more fun (and maybe slightly more equitable) if top teams like us or City couldn’t afford to rely on a super high line manned by super-athlete defenders than only rich teams can afford. There is nothing wrong with everyone defending a little deeper.
 
There's a lot wrong with it, but I wouldn't get rid of it.

They need to get rid of the ridiculous charade of the ref going to rubber stamp the VAR decision at the pitchside monitor. That was always a stupid idea - it pressurises the ref, encourages buck-passing, and slows everything down.

They should get rid of the clear and obvious standard - it's too subjective. They just need to make as good a decision as they can.

They need to recognise that getting offsides correct to a fine degree is pointless and probably contrary to the spirit of the rule. The rule is there to stop unfair advantages. An attacker cannot gain an advantage by his nose being an inch ahead of a defender's foot. The old standard of being roughly level is equally good at preventing unfair advantages, so that's what should be applied. Grey areas are an acceptable price to pay with lots of the other laws.

But mainly, they should have a time limit for each decision of 30 seconds or so. If they can't be sure in that time, move on.
 
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The problem you have with trying to improve VAR is there is no way to do this without changing the laws of the game.....the laws of the game as it stands is open to much subjectivity which is causing all the divide amongst fans/players/managers, take away the subjectivity and make it's sole purpose to fix offsides.....it does that well 9 times out of 10, we can live with this.....the Diaz error was down to the incompetence in communication, maybe bring in the semi automated shit they use in the CL.
 
I feel like it should be the ref using VAR more - like dodgy tackle, Ref blows, not sure it constitutes red or yellow and asks for an assessment - like the way a Ref would ask for specific things to be checked in rugby.

I’ve got no problem with performing “cricket like” checks on goals if there’s any possibility of offside or ball out of play or foul in the build up or dives, etc - again maybe there’d has to specify what he wants checked.

What I hate, and I think most do, particularly on tackles, is a Ref making a real time decision and VAR looking at a slowed down version over 50 billion angles and then deciding an upgrade is worthy without being asked to check. Like blow the whistle and say possible red or yellow - please review.

I think it’s also about clearing up some of the rules - the handball rule is all over the place, the offside rule is all over the place (like @peterhague mention - needs to be an advantages - not their nose or armpit offside - maybe keep it to feet and have it so the whole of the furthest foot forward has to be past the defender furthered back foot otherwise benefit to attacker.

Also - surely increasing the quality of the officials is required - or maybe you do have more lines people - 4 each side or even a couple behind the goal as well (though they’d likely be irrelevant).
 
Modo said:
I think some of you have forgot how bad it was without VAR.
Maybe only implement VAR to determine offsides and fouls in and around the box only.
Click to expand...
Absolutely this. People are looking back through rose-tinted glasses. It was horrendous before - we just didn't get to see how horrendous until the TV replays or until after the match. And most people dismissed it as 'part and parcel of football'. Even though it cost teams titles, cups and history.

The PL (and their skinflint club owners who turned down the chance to use the more advanced, more expensive, version that is used in Europe and gives automated offside decisions) are the ones fucking it up, we need better, clearer rules (total overhaul), faster decisions (is it truly obvious or not - it's a 10 sec decision) and most importantly better people in the VAR booth.
 
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LarryHagman said:
You make it sound like that still isn't happening? It is. VAR adds nothing. Otherwise why are we still talking about it every week? Goal-line and off-side and nothing more, that's what it should be used for.
Click to expand...
No that isn't happening. CLEAR dives / pens are correctly given. The issue is with the rules defining what is / isn't a penalty and then the VAR team's interpretation. Rules should be black + white with no room for personal 'interpretation'.
 
StevieM said:
Also - surely increasing the quality of the officials is required - or maybe you do have more lines people - 4 each side or even a couple behind the goal as well (though they’d likely be irrelevant).
Click to expand...
Didn't they have officials behind the goal line in CL one year? The had flag sticks without a flag (weird) and did absolutely fuck all, as I remember.
 
Keep it, improve it by having competent people using it (not ex refs) and set them up to succeed by implementing it as it should be. Not having their own little twists and turns that arent the same as the rest of Europe.
Introduce semi automatic offsides. Thats something that will speed up the game and we dont have to see the twats like Coote draw lines.

It will make the game better if used correctly.
 
  1. No mates in the VAR booth. This increases the likelihood that the on-field ref won't disagree with the VAR ref. So no PGMOL refs.
  2. Give the on field ref a monitor FFS ! The off-field monitor should only be a backup in case on on field monitor failure.
  3. The Ref should be given the option to review something - and he can review immediately, not only when a VAR official decides it's worth reviewing and thereby influences the referee.
 
I would do some better rules:
All decisions must be made within one minute
Give refs and VAR people fat bonuses for good performance
Less slo-mo allowed
 
Frogfish said:
  1. No mates in the VAR booth. This increases the likelihood that the on-field ref won't disagree with the VAR ref. So no PGMOL refs.
  2. Give the on field ref a monitor FFS ! The off-field monitor should only be a backup in case on on field monitor failure.
  3. The Ref should be given the option to review something - and he can review immediately, not only when a VAR official decides it's worth reviewing and thereby influences the referee.
Click to expand...

I don't really get why the onfield ref needs to be involved at all. The VAR is a qualified referee too, that's the whole point.
 
rurikbird said:
I’ll say something controversial - I like that Klopp takes advantage of it, but as a fan I don’t particularly enjoy the reliance on razor-thin offsides in a high line as a defensive tactic. Football would be more fun (and maybe slightly more equitable) if top teams like us or City couldn’t afford to rely on a super high line manned by super-athlete defenders than only rich teams can afford. There is nothing wrong with everyone defending a little deeper.
Click to expand...

You are right, but ultimately if you look at the league's history there is one absolute common theme that runs across it and has stood the test of time.

1) The team that wins the league more often than not is the one with the best defence.
2) The difference between the rich teams and the less fortunate teams is that there defenders have been better or better operationally compared to their poorer rivals.

I do feel more comfortable with slightly deeper line - but Klopp is Klopp and he ain't gonna change. Look at last season - he had fuck all in midfield and still refused to pull that line back.
 
peterhague said:
I don't really get why the onfield ref needs to be involved at all. The VAR is a qualified referee too, that's the whole point.
Click to expand...

Immediate communication vs waiting for the VAR ref to communicate the decision. However, the question remains why in so many games the decisions by the onfield ref takes so fucking long - if the onfield linesman is waiting to be told by the VAR guy in the office then what is the point. The onfield guy should be able to tell which offisides are the most obvious ones.
 
moron said:
Immediate communication vs waiting for the VAR ref to communicate the decision. However, the question remains why in so many games the decisions by the onfield ref takes so fucking long - if the onfield linesman is waiting to be told by the VAR guy in the office then what is the point. The onfield guy should be able to tell which offisides are the most obvious ones.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean. Immediate communication of what?
 
SummerOnions said:
I would do some better rules:
All decisions must be made within one minute
Give refs and VAR people fat bonuses for good performance
Less slo-mo allowed
Click to expand...

haha could you imagine this, the current decision makers but now with a gun to their heads

it’s a good idea but I’m just imagining them shitting their pants with a countdown timer on the wall
 
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