Disappointing today but then so was every other outfield player.
Florian and the (Slot) Machine
- Thread starter MomoWASright
- Start date
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I think the best of Wirtz will come with a different formation. We need 442 diamond to allow an extra CM body in there with him and more width from full backs.
This formation matches as our summer transfer strategy, just not the Mo Salah contract.
I’d love to see Slot be brave and try this for a match or two
Ali
Bradders
Ibu
Virg
Kerkez
Gravy
Szob
Macca
Wirtz
Ekitike
Isak
This formation matches as our summer transfer strategy, just not the Mo Salah contract.
I’d love to see Slot be brave and try this for a match or two
Ali
Bradders
Ibu
Virg
Kerkez
Gravy
Szob
Macca
Wirtz
Ekitike
Isak
I also heard about running & pressing stats etc. - that he's #1 in the PL in those too. @King Binny ?
There's no doubting his energy, application and quality - now he (and his team mates FFS) need to convert that into goals and assists. He was close against Palace and Gala. It's coming and when it does hopefully it will allow him to relax, having got that monkey off his back, and the floodgates will open.
What chances? Salah hitting the post and Bradley missing a header?
Premier League only:
Expected assists:
Grealish 1.84
Mbeumo 1.34
Fernandes 1.01
Wirtz 0.77
Big chances created
Grealish 3
Mbeumo 1
Fernandes 1
Wirtz 0
I mean, what is a chance created? Does it just mean a team-mate takes a shot after you give him the ball?
The more detailed stats are suggesting that he's not creating good quality chances.
The only one I remember is the one Mo put against the post against Atletico - that'll be in the Opta figures (all comps) but isn't in my numbers above.
Look, I'm desperate for the lad to succeed, I love seeing his poise on the ball, but it's just not happening right now.
Expected assists:
Grealish 1.84
Mbeumo 1.34
Fernandes 1.01
Wirtz 0.77
Big chances created
Grealish 3
Mbeumo 1
Fernandes 1
Wirtz 0
I mean, what is a chance created? Does it just mean a team-mate takes a shot after you give him the ball?
The more detailed stats are suggesting that he's not creating good quality chances.
The only one I remember is the one Mo put against the post against Atletico - that'll be in the Opta figures (all comps) but isn't in my numbers above.
Look, I'm desperate for the lad to succeed, I love seeing his poise on the ball, but it's just not happening right now.
We’re also missing physicality in the middle when he plays.
Honestly that's not a call I'd make. Last season : Szobo (not physical but runs a lot - so a lot like Wirtz), Macca, Jones and Gravy (same three) plus Elliott (not physical).
Endo hardly played last season (and won't this) but Gravy has his position anyway. Robbo vs Kerkez? That's a wash. Trent vs Frimpong? Not much in it but if anyone it's Frim. yes we've lost Diaz but Chiesa gets stuck in when he plays so there is that.
Where have we really lost physicality ? It's not been our game for years.
I think he needs to drop his default position back 5-10 yards. It just feels like every time he has the ball in a decent position and tries to play the pass it gets cut out because he is too close to the defender and under pressure / with his passing lines too easily cut-off (at least that's what it feels like when he's in central areas). He needs to be more distant from the press to give himself time and space to pick a pass, or else he needs to invite the opposition to press him higher up and leave a bit more space for the forwards to run into.
He's probably not used to the intensity of the pressing that he's coming up against every week.
He's probably not used to the intensity of the pressing that he's coming up against every week.
Using the Prem Player Comparison site for my data.
This season Wirtz
Minutes per duel won - 36.75
Mins per aerial duel won - 220.5
Mins per tackle - 73.5
Mac 24/25
Mins per duel won - 15.33
Mins per aerial duel won - 137.21
Min per tackle - 27.44
Jones 24/25
Mins per duel won - 19.00
Mins per aerial duel won - 122.14
Mins per tackle - 43.8
Szoboszlai 24/25
Mins per duel won - 24.47
Mins per aerial duel won - 131.37
Mins per tackle - 65.68
It may not be down to Wirtz, but how he’s been asked to play which means we are taking out those tackles and headers you’d expect from a midfielder.
Only issue with that is then there's a fucking huuuuuuge disconnect to the striker. We saw it yesterday with Isak. Ekitike drops deeper and moves a lot more, so it's easier for him to find him, but Isaks style is a lot more languid (so far)
Didn’t he play in a 5 man midfield with 2 wing backs?
Yup
So obviously there's going to be a difference, he just seems to be covering a lot more ground that he's arguably used to. Makes sense for some of the teething troubles.
Some not all
I was texting my mate back home during yesterday's match, and we were doing this topic, of course. He already wants to send him back and ask for a refund. Meanwhile, he's barely in the top three of my main concerns for this team, so far this season...
These are the payers that I actually think have offered far less than Wirtz so far this season: Macca's been woeful. Mo's been woeful. Konate is a liability lately. Kirkez and Frimpong both look rudderless. Curtis continues to prove he's just not what we all hoped he'd become. And Cody's as predictable as the sunrise and as dangerous as a sponge this season.
It's only after this list of problems that I look at Wirtz.
And here's the thing... I'm not overly concerned about ANY of them (except Konate) - They'll work it out. They're too good not to. But they're all bigger issues for me than Wirtz's slow start.
These are the payers that I actually think have offered far less than Wirtz so far this season: Macca's been woeful. Mo's been woeful. Konate is a liability lately. Kirkez and Frimpong both look rudderless. Curtis continues to prove he's just not what we all hoped he'd become. And Cody's as predictable as the sunrise and as dangerous as a sponge this season.
It's only after this list of problems that I look at Wirtz.
And here's the thing... I'm not overly concerned about ANY of them (except Konate) - They'll work it out. They're too good not to. But they're all bigger issues for me than Wirtz's slow start.
In the BL last year 11.6 kms per match. PL this season 11.0 - 11.3 kms per match.
Other interesting stats from the BL official site (2024/5) : -
Wirtz 8th in Sprints, Frimpong 1st.
Wirtz not in the Top 20 for successful passes from open play, likely because he tries a lot of high value / high risk passes in and about the pen. area.
Wirtz 2nd in assists (12) behind Olise (15). 2 so far this season, all comps.
Wirtz 17th in goals (10, 1 so far this all comps). Woltemade (12), Sesko (13), Ekitike (15), Marmoush (15). Kane top with 26.
Wirtz 7th in shots (78). Kane (110), Marmoush (88), Olise (77)
--------
PL stats (courtesy of the PL official webpage) :
Most goals : Haaland (8), Ekitike (3 - jt 5th)
Most assists : Grealish 4, Xhaka and others 3.
Most passes : VvD 484 + 1 other
It's spin.
Our eyes tell us all we need to know. He's been disappointing and is struggling. That's the truth of it.
Hopefully once he gets a goal & some assists he'll get some confidence & press on.
Once he gets a goal I think he’ll explode but fuck me it hasn’t been what many thought it would be 8 games in.
That heat map is really interesting. I know there's a reluctance to play him wide left. But Gakpo's hardly setting the world alight.
In the modern premier league playing number 10 is difficult. If he started from wide left there's less emphasis on him needing to stamp his authority on games, and the ball will naturally come to him more, in less crowded areas.
It then lets us play Ekitike next to Isak, in a withdrawn 2nd striker kind of role.
In the modern premier league playing number 10 is difficult. If he started from wide left there's less emphasis on him needing to stamp his authority on games, and the ball will naturally come to him more, in less crowded areas.
It then lets us play Ekitike next to Isak, in a withdrawn 2nd striker kind of role.
One thing I hate about modern football is clubs signing players then playing them out of the position which made the club buy them in the first place.
If we want Wirtz to be a success here then he has to be central.
If we want Wirtz to be a success here then he has to be central.
Yet he made his name playing on the left of Xabi Alonso's 3-4-3 formation.
We don’t play that way. We aren’t going play him in the places on the heat map posted last night.
Is this the article you are referring to, @Frogfish ?
Florian Wirtz is Liverpool's running man: Why the Germany international's work rate is just as important as his technique
Florian Wirtz did not take the headlines on his Premier League debut but he topped one metric that suggests he could have a big impact for Liverpool. With insight from someone has played against Wirtz, Adam Bate picks out a quality that you might have missed...
Florian Wirtz is struggling. Here’s why – and what Liverpool can do to help him
The German has had a faltering start to life at Anfield after a £116m summer move but there is no need to panic, yet
www.nytimes.com
"The 17 chances he has created in the Premier League and Champions League only add up to an expected assists figure of 1.4, so he is not carving out high-quality opportunities.
When you break it down further, only 10 of his 21 total chances created have come in the six Premier League matches. Seven of those have come from open play, which is the same as the total number of opportunities he has made in his two Champions League appearances.
It further highlights the idea he is battling to adapt to a new league."
No thanks for looking Binny. It was a comment during commentary or something I heard. About his running (and pressing?) stats being the best in the PL per 90 this season? I checked the usual sources but it's 'too early' according to the PL etc.Is this the article you are referring to, @Frogfish ?
Florian Wirtz is Liverpool's running man: Why the Germany international's work rate is just as important as his technique
Florian Wirtz did not take the headlines on his Premier League debut but he topped one metric that suggests he could have a big impact for Liverpool. With insight from someone has played against Wirtz, Adam Bate picks out a quality that you might have missed...www.skysports.com
🇩🇪🎥 Florian Wirtz, in an interview with Sky Sports Germany:
🗣️ "It's impressive when 'You'll Never Walk Alone' is played at Anfield. It does something to you when so many people sing that song. It definitely gets under your skin.”
🗣️England is definitely different from Germany. It rained a bit too much last week, but otherwise I feel very comfortable. I've settled in well. There wasn't a huge culture shock. The people are very friendly, very accommodating, and that's why I feel comfortable and happy to be here"
🗣️ "After the Champions League game, Slot told me I wouldn't start in the league (against Everton) because he wanted to control the load a bit and see which game I could play better in. He decided on the Champions League game, that I would start there and then sit on the bench in the league. I fully understood that. I was able to recover a bit and didn't have to exert myself as much."
🗣️”When will I be at my best? That's difficult to say. I'd like to know, too, but it can take some time until you really arrive somewhere and settle in and are familiar with everything, and I'll allow myself that. I just hope that at some point the time will come when I feel truly comfortable, at home, and ready."
🗣️ "It's impressive when 'You'll Never Walk Alone' is played at Anfield. It does something to you when so many people sing that song. It definitely gets under your skin.”
🗣️England is definitely different from Germany. It rained a bit too much last week, but otherwise I feel very comfortable. I've settled in well. There wasn't a huge culture shock. The people are very friendly, very accommodating, and that's why I feel comfortable and happy to be here"
🗣️ "After the Champions League game, Slot told me I wouldn't start in the league (against Everton) because he wanted to control the load a bit and see which game I could play better in. He decided on the Champions League game, that I would start there and then sit on the bench in the league. I fully understood that. I was able to recover a bit and didn't have to exert myself as much."
🗣️”When will I be at my best? That's difficult to say. I'd like to know, too, but it can take some time until you really arrive somewhere and settle in and are familiar with everything, and I'll allow myself that. I just hope that at some point the time will come when I feel truly comfortable, at home, and ready."
Clever lad. He's given himself time to grow into the role and therefore take some of the pressure off.
Of course there are many that expect him to pull up trees right from the off but they always do with any new high profile player.
I expect Isak's career will start in similar fashion.
Hrm, I hope not. One was bought for now, one was bought for later.
Whatever gave you that idea ?! I imagine both were bought with the idea of now AND for the foreseeable future !
