Man United (a) post-match

[MomoWASright]

I’m wondering what the fuck happened between the charity shield and Fulham. Even the fit players look dead. We were full of energy and since city we’ve taken out half the squad with the rest playing like they’re in deep dive gear.

When your best players at the toilet are Diaz and two kids you’re in trouble. I was going to come here and say that was pathetic, but it wasn’t completely rubbish. 0-30 minutes absolutely dross. 30-50 slow and predictable, but we kept the ball. 50-70 garbage. 70 to the end we played with urgency.

Firmino should’ve been sold three seasons ago. Salah, despite his goal, should’ve been sold to funds the next iteration of this team. Part of me thinks that contract has pissed off a lot of the squad. Van Dijk looks pissed all of the time.

Anyway, win 35 on the bounce and win the league.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Pretty strange post-match interview as well from Klopp, trying to sound positive, but ending up looking almost delusional. Says we deserved to win and there were many positive aspects of the performance. He did say he's concerned about the injury situation.

That's even more worrying than the result ... I hope hes just playing mind games.

 

[rurikbird]

That's even more worrying than the result ... I hope hes just playing mind games.

He must be – I think he was shocked and surprised at our performance after the Fulham game, but now in the past 2 weeks he clearly saw that we have major problems with players that cannot not be solved quickly, so he's just trying to keep a positive attitude outward because it's better than the alternative – in other words he's already past the anger and denial phase.

 

[rurikbird]

So much is wrong here. Firmino was really way too deep in this game and more getting in the way than helping. Gomez was forced to progress with the ball, but he's no Matip. The full-backs stayed deep and were rarely an attacking factor because they couldn't trust the midfielders to not lose the ball. Milner got into a lot of good positions, but didn't have the legs to turn those opportunities into chances (except that one time he fed Firmino).

 

[LeTallecWiz]

He must be – I think he was shocked and surprised at our performance after the Fulham game, but now in the past 2 weeks he clearly saw that we have major problems with players that cannot not be solved quickly, so he's just trying to keep a positive attitude outward because it's better than the alternative – in other words he's already past the anger and denial phase.

I hope that's accurate ...

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Like I’ve said before. It’s an end of an era. Empire’s falling apart. Time to go home. Game’s over. And to think we were all fretting over Mo’s contract saga earlier. Lol. I would have booted him out in an instant in retrospect now.

 

[Woland]

I don't think it's much more complicated than Milner and Henderson being too old and too slow, and Klopp sticking with them at half time.

 

[Squiggles]

I know it's only a snapshot but check out our midfield positioning.

Calling it AWOL would be too kind.

 

[peekay]

I don't think it's much more complicated than Milner and Henderson being too old and too slow, and Klopp sticking with them at half time.

I do think there is an element of later-day Wenger in the sense that our transfer committee is obsessed with making sure that every signing is perfect and at the right value. Our reputation in the transfer market, appearing clever on every purchase is more important than the actual quality we put out on the pitch. There is an element of Klopp hanging on to his players till they run out of his hands. But we could have held our hands up and said we ballsed up our midfield, we need to sell players for a loss, and maybe overpay and rebuild, but we don't do that.

Keita's agent agitating for a move and publicly dissing us might actually be doing us a favor. Otherwise, Klopp would have been hanging on to Keita till the last minute of his contract. The depressing part is, that might still happen.

 

[moron]

I know it's only a snapshot but check out our midfield positioning.

Calling it AWOL would be too kind.

That structure is a pre season type I have seen before from us. I remember the euro super cup against Chelsea which we won on penalties at the end. Honestly there large parts of that game where we did not have a midfield, they were all up front.

 

[moron]

I do think there is an element of later-day Wenger in the sense that our transfer committee is obsessed with making sure that every signing is perfect and at the right value. Our reputation in the transfer market, appearing clever on every purchase is more important than the actual quality we put out on the pitch. There is an element of Klopp hanging on to his players till they run out of his hands. But we could have held our hands up and said we ballsed up our midfield, we need to sell players for a loss, and maybe overpay and rebuild, but we don't do that.

Keita's agent agitating for a move and publicly dissing us might actually be doing us a favor. Otherwise, Klopp would have been hanging on to Keita till the last minute of his contract. The depressing part is, that might still happen.

If this loss is the catalyst for midfield change and us dipping into the transfer market to get just good players who can stay the fuck fit, then this result plus Keita being a prick might be the best thing for us.

 

[RedStar]

I just hope that we use it to ensure Elliot, Fabio and others are ready to blossom next year.

City will win 5 in 6 ... yikes.

I don't know how those 2 fit into Klopps team long term. Elliot was considered a really great prospect as an attacking midfielder and shone in that role at Blackburn, for us Klopp seems intent on turning him into Gini Wjinaldum which simply isn't his game.

Carvalho has got bags of talent, but seemingly plays a position that doesn't exist in our team. Like Coutinho I don't see where he's going to get a run long term, maybe as a false 9 but he's not got the goals in his game for that.

 

[moron]

So much is wrong here. Firmino was really way too deep in this game and more getting in the way than helping. Gomez was forced to progress with the ball, but he's no Matip. The full-backs stayed deep and were rarely an attacking factor because they couldn't trust the midfielders to not lose the ball. Milner got into a lot of good positions, but didn't have the legs to turn those opportunities into chances (except that one time he fed Firmino).

Yes noticed that with Milner, it was always in those last moments where he just could not turn or out strength his marker.

 

[peekay]

I don't know how those 2 fit into Klopps team long term. Elliot was considered a really great prospect as an attacking midfielder and shone in that role at Blackburn, for us Klopp seems intent on turning him into Gini Wjinaldum which simply isn't his game.

Carvalho has got bags of talent, but seemingly plays a position that doesn't exist in our team. Like Coutinho I don't see where he's going to get a run long term, maybe as a false 9 but he's not got the goals in his game for that.

Elliott doesn't have the pace to play in attack in the PL.

I am not sure he has the pace or physical strength to play in midfield for a club aiming to win the league but he is a clever player, has good technique, worth persevering. I think he will end up being a useful player to have in the squad.

 

[Halmeister]

There's a few things going on here, all of which have probably been mentioned in this thread at some point.

Injuries - we've got a shitload of them and their effect is obvious

Players past their peak - this is an aging squad that needs to be updated and rejuvenated with top players. Especially in midfield.

Lack of investment - we needed two midfielders this summer. Nevermind one. Yet we're still plugging away with geriatric Milner, a waning Hendo, Elliott who isn't ready, inconsistent (recently) Fabs, Jones who isn't good enough, shithouse Keita, injury prone and aging Thiago, Ox (paaaahahahaha), and Carvalho who looks promising but is a kid. We also got rid of Origi and Minamino and haven't replaced them. Our depth has taken a massive hit.

Mentality - these players look mentally and physically shot. Is it the effort and the disappointment of last season weighing on them, or is it simply the end of their cycle?

Tactics - pathetic today. Klopp has his approach and sticks to it steadfastly. Rightly so most of the time. But he got it majorly wrong today.

Like i said in the match thread. It's going to be a tough, tough season. Forget the title. It's done. We do have a real slog on our hands for top 4 and I wouldn't be all that surprised if we missed out. Dropping 7 points in 3 games against dross is horrendous, and Spurs, City, Arsenal all look in a better place than us. Chelsea will add to their squad and improve. Likewise United. We won't add to ours. Gonna be rough, this.

 

[rurikbird]

I know it's only a snapshot but check out our midfield positioning.

Calling it AWOL would be too kind.

It's almost like the likes of Hendo and Milner are so used to playing with either Thiago, Fabs or at least Keita – midfielders comfortable with receiving and progressing the ball in the middle even under pressure – that they are assuming "someone" should be there and are already aligning for the next pass that non-existent midfielder should provide. Maybe that's why Firmino was dropping so deep.

It was only marginally better with Fabinho BTW (tonight and in other games) – yes, he gave a focal point in midfield, but the spaces around him were still uncomfortably large. It's beyond me why the most dangerous area of the pitch, where an attacker can turn and run directly at the defense with options left and right, is sometimes almost intentionally left unprotected.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

We just got out-gegenpressed by the mancs whom we trashed 9-0 last season. Take a moment and let that sink in.

Ten Haag must have read Pep’s book, cos it’s intensity my arse on our part.

He should write a new book called Lethargy.

 

[RedStar]

The other thing that needs to be acknowledged is how poor our squad looks now. Our bench today for a must win game against (arguably) our biggest rivals

Fabinho
Adrian
Tsimikas
Carvalho
Clark
Bajcetic
Phillips
Van den Berg
Davies

An 18 year old reserve goalkeeper named on the bench just to fill the numbers, no forwards at all. Fabinho aside that's the bench of a team fighting relegation, it's kids and journeymen.

 

[binomial]

Next 2 games until Nunez gets back id like to see us switch to a back 3…just to see something different.

Alisson
Gomez
Virgil
Robbo
Trent
Fab
Hendo
Tsimikas
Carvalho
Diaz
Salah

Surely this is better than seeing that shit line up we saw today and by line up I mean midfield.

 

[bluebell]

The other thing that needs to be acknowledged is how poor our squad looks now. Our bench today for a must win game against (arguably) our biggest rivals

Fabinho
Adrian
Tsimikas
Carvalho
Clark
Bajcetic
Phillips
Van den Berg
Davies

An 18 year old reserve goalkeeper named on the bench just to fill the numbers, no forwards at all. Fabinho aside that's the bench of a team fighting relegation, it's kids and journeymen.

We lost our shape - a) it was a mistake to leave out Fabs b) Without Thiago the MF looks clueless c) We missed Nunez who would have given their back line nightmares. Solution is the transfer market

 

[rurikbird]

And whatever other problems we have, this is inexcusable:

 

[walesnj]

I've just watched the highlights and I just don't understand what the hell Van Dijk is doing for the first goal, like, why the hell do you stand with your arms behind your back like a dummy...attack the fucking ball....I totally understand Milner having a go at him after the fact. The way Van Dijk has started this season, it's as though he is scared of getting hurt before the World Cup

 

[RedStar]

And whatever other problems we have, this is inexcusable:

Inexcusable, we weren't outplayed, we simply didn't compete

 

[moron]

And whatever other problems we have, this is inexcusable:

Of course they covered more distances and sprints, when we all calm down, for most of that game they had moments in which sadly 2 of them led to goals. But essentially they played mourinho esq tactics at home. Yes they did a loose park the bus, this team we lost to will probably lose their next away game. The extra sprinting and distances was the work they had to do to stop us mainly, that's all.

It has to be said our intensity ain't that great because we have become use to Thiago balls, and also because we are a passing side with high stamina. Unfortunately the build up play is so slow now that our stickers and front men have zero space by the time they get the ball.

@walesnj - yes VVD was bad for that goal, and yes you will find some players not wanting to put out 100% for fear of injury before a world Cup. It use to be that many players especially Brazil players would have their best ever seasons leading into a world Cup but because national coaches are fixated on CL performers they don't really select players out of the norm. Once you are in you know you will get selected.

 

[Farkmaster]

Inexcusable, we weren't outplayed, we simply didn't compete

We are too fucking old. It's not mentality, it's the legs.

Our team was best with two young fullbacks and a bit of maturity mixed with athleticism in midfield, with fast as fuck hungry attackers, willing to track back.

We let the fucking thing rot on the vine.

Have you seen a 60 year old rocker? Heavy metal is best for the young, stupid, and eager. Klopp will sort it, but he has to let it die first. And if fsg won't fund it, I have no fucking clue why we held on to Salah, because we aren't going to win anything with him in this sort of team, and if we aren't, why not bite the bullet rather than watch him be a shit version of himself.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

And whatever other problems we have, this is inexcusable:

Preseason my arse. Lactate tests kiss my arse.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I can’t wait for the WC now. We’ll be so knackered by then we’ll finish mid table or 4th at best. And the dreaded Sack Klopp threads will almost surely come.

 

[RedStar]

Literally nobody is suggesting sacking Klopp

 

[moron]

Literally nobody is suggesting sacking Klopp

Exactly, fucking 3 CL finals at the same club under one manager , rare and impossible to find. What we are demanding is Klopp upgrade the midfield.

 

[moron]

I think Casemiro is the devil, his presence must be some form of hidden kryptonite for Liverpool. Its the only explanation why we looked so shit tonight against them