It’s pretty fucking important for a 10 too!
Florian and the (Slot) Machine
- Thread starter MomoWASright
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Since when was Inesta a 10? And also comparing anyone to one of the greatest ever midfielders to play the game isn’t fair imo.
Of course there is more to it but atm the only thing he has offered is running a lot and we have plenty that can do that.
He needs to drastically improve and I’m sure he will just not sure it’ll be enough to be deemed a success.
That's fantastic.
"He will probably drastically improve but not enough to be deemed a success"
Covering all bases.
Talk about setting yourself up to say "I was right"
But then you don't do that.
This is the absolute problem with this sort of thing with Dreamie.
It starts with the “he’s a big gamble… blah blah blah”
He’s now got the opening he needed to do the “Dreamie Double Down” and started “I never say I was right, but I’m saying I was right!!!”.
It’s, important at this point he maintains the pretence that this is some sort of debate in which he could be swayed - he can’t, that’s not what this is about.
The thing he will never do, is set out criteria by which his argument can be proven to be wrong.
These two things allow him to simultaneously dismiss any criticism and double down on his own position.
If Wirtz plays well in the next 5 games, producing good numbers he’ll double down to “it’s only 5 games, needs to be over a season”, in absolute contradiction to his starting position of deeming Wirtz not good enough after less than 5 games.
If Wirtz plays well for the rest of the season, then he’ll pivot to somehow expecting more because of the cost - even if he puts out prime Mo figures, he’ll have cost more so therefore Dreamie was still right because it was such an expensive signing.
Even if he’s our player of the season, the Dreamie pivot will be, for the cost he needs to do it over numerous years…. just like Mo!!!
He’ll flip-flop around goals, assists, position and who it’s comparable with, changing to suit whatever allows his to say “I was right”.
I mean even if Wirtz posted figure better than prime Messi, Dreamie will pivot to “Messi didn’t cost as much as Wirtz”.
He’ll likely pivot into the nebulous area where it’s “eye test” or whatever… you know the “yeah he score 40 goals and makes 60 assists a season…. But for that money I’d expect him to dominate the opposition more, dictate tempo and have more other-worldly passing!!!”.
All that’s fine and Dreamie is entitled to do whatever he wants to do to get his kicks - the trap, which we all fall into, myself many a time, is actually thinking it’s a debate whereby Dreamie is there to be proven wrong or to engage in any meaningful way other than “I was right”.
Of course - Dreamie could prove me wrong by specifying the criteria by which he would change his mind and deem Wirtz a success - it would save us all a lot of time and effort trying to offer suggestions or points, which he can just bat away like like a stonewalling opening batsman setting his stall, not to score, but to not get out.., our Arteta tactics when playing anyone half decent, or Peps new tactics when playing anyone!!!!
Come on @Dreambeliever - what’s your criteria for success - how many goals and assists does he need to achieve - what actually constitutes a success whereby your “I hope he succeeds” can be substantiated?
I’ve a question… these players
David Silva. Coutiniho, hazard - smaller frame players who played in a similar position to Wirtz. Came from slower leagues. How did they do in their first 10 games as they adjusted. It would be interesting to compare. You might even throw Bernardo Silva in there with his smaller frame.
Anyone know a good source to find the data for these players as they bedded in.
David Silva. Coutiniho, hazard - smaller frame players who played in a similar position to Wirtz. Came from slower leagues. How did they do in their first 10 games as they adjusted. It would be interesting to compare. You might even throw Bernardo Silva in there with his smaller frame.
Anyone know a good source to find the data for these players as they bedded in.
You can look at Transfermarkt and see goals and assists over their first 10 games in the debut season easily enough.
Goals and assists aren't even the issue for me. He just needs to start playing well and impacting games. Isak was largely a passenger when he came on against Everton but that little through ball to a marginally offside Salah was better than anything I've seen from Wirtz in 6 matches. If he'd produced a few moments like that I'd have no problem with him, regardless of whether they'd actually led to goals.
Eden Hazard started with a bang - with 1 goal & 5 assists in his first 3 games, which became 2 goals and 7 assists in his first 10 and then 9 goals and 13 assists by the end of his first season.
Chelsea finished 3rd.
His 2nd season, he delivered 14 goals and 7 assists as Chelsea’s again finished 3rd.
It was Hazard’s 3rd season when he hit 14 goals and 10 assists that Chelsea’s won the league.
Chelsea finished 3rd.
His 2nd season, he delivered 14 goals and 7 assists as Chelsea’s again finished 3rd.
It was Hazard’s 3rd season when he hit 14 goals and 10 assists that Chelsea’s won the league.
I disagree. He’s done plenty of those cute passes that have work and some that ‘almost’ paid off, too.
Coutinho, is a little bit harder to rate because he got injured in his 4th game and missed the next 5.
Nothing in his first 4 games, and rounding out his first 10 league games at 1 goal and 1 assist.
He ended the season with 5 goals and 7 assists.
These are all EPL only, by the way.
Also… fun fact… Coutinho is only 3 days older than Mo Salah - that’s a testament to how well Dalah has looked after himself and how relentlessly consistent he’s been.
Nothing in his first 4 games, and rounding out his first 10 league games at 1 goal and 1 assist.
He ended the season with 5 goals and 7 assists.
These are all EPL only, by the way.
Also… fun fact… Coutinho is only 3 days older than Mo Salah - that’s a testament to how well Dalah has looked after himself and how relentlessly consistent he’s been.
Looks after himself just like his cousin, the Dalah Lama.
G&A is at least a measure for me though - it at least shows some sort of basic impact to the game which is what your looking for.
“playing well” is a bit nebulous - I get it, you want to see him do things that make you go “wow, he’s got skillz” - I do too, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to impacting the game.
Goals and assists are a bit basic - but it’s something - I’m sure there are sites that will give you infeoth “key passes” or”progressive passes leading to big chance creation” data - but I reckon you’ll call that dull.
Fucking fat typing fingers + plus a fabulous Tasmanian Chardonnay… as Yoda once said… “mix… they do not!!!”.
Ok so
David Silva 1 goal 3 assists in first 10
Little Phil 2 goals 4 assists in first 10
Eden Hazard 2 goals and 7 assists in first 10
Bernardo Silva 1 goal and 1 assist in first 10
By these metrics, Florian is a wee bit behind where other similar players might be (it’s an imperfect comparison I’m sure).
It’s fair to say the data suggests he might be underperforming compared to other similar new arrivals. But he’s only played 5 in te PL so far.
David Silva 1 goal 3 assists in first 10
Little Phil 2 goals 4 assists in first 10
Eden Hazard 2 goals and 7 assists in first 10
Bernardo Silva 1 goal and 1 assist in first 10
By these metrics, Florian is a wee bit behind where other similar players might be (it’s an imperfect comparison I’m sure).
It’s fair to say the data suggests he might be underperforming compared to other similar new arrivals. But he’s only played 5 in te PL so far.
I'm not really sure including Hazard in there is fair. He might've been short but he always looked so solid and agile to me, almost like a gymnast. He was never going to be bullied.
Not sure whether that is funny or sad. It is ABSOLUTELY spot-on and boring as hell.
I love the idea of throwing Bernardo Silva in somewhere, but what I had in mind was a pizza oven.
I told you I don’t do them!
If Wirtz puts up Salah numbers over the next 10 seasons and drives us to winning multiple league and CL titles then he’ll be a success. Anything less and he won’t have justified the insane price we paid for a 22 year old from a farmers league.
I sincerely hope he does that but so far the guarantees his fans gave us before signing him seem shaky at best!
Was David Silva a record transfer at the time? Did city change their entire system to accommodate him? Was he instrumental is them lifting 4 PL titles?
