Florian and the (Slot) Machine

[the count]

I think there is a lot of narrative framing going on with Wrtz.
Some of the people who were concerned about the transfer fee are rushing to write him off to prove themselves right on the internet with the knowledge that if he does come good then they can claim that so he should because of the fee we paid for him.
On the other extreme there is a dampening of expectations about what he can achieve and what a success might look like.
All so you can be right on the internet which is seemingly a very important thing.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think there is a lot of narrative framing going on with Wrtz.
Some of the people who were concerned about the transfer fee are rushing to write him off to prove themselves right on the internet with the knowledge that if he does come good then they can claim that so he should because of the fee we paid for him.
On the other extreme there is a dampening of expectations about what he can achieve and what a success might look like.
All so you can be right on the internet which is seemingly a very important thing.

Don't forget the group of people calling out those extremes, in order to be right on the internet too.

 

[the count]

Don't forget the group of people calling out those extremes, in order to be right on the internet too.

I was wrong to forget those.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Trust the count and gerry to wade in and be all logical.

We're winning all our matches and just spunked 420m quid on top signings. There's little to complain about other than each other's opinions.

What else are we supposed to do with our time? Work? Fuck that.

 

[MomoWASright]

I see him as a square peg in a round hole. He clearly must be talented for the nerds and big wigs to sign off on such a fee. He came with that reputation of being a wonder kid as a 10. That’s the problem, we don’t play with a 10. Szoboszlai isn’t a 10, he’s a Stevie G 8, box to box. The other 2 mids we play with are progressive 6s/8s. We obviously have a 9 with Isak and Ekitike and then a 7 and 11 as wide forwards. Where does this 10 fit?

I can’t believe we are having a massive overhaul of our formation as we were sold on Slot because he would continue in a similar way as Klopp. Which has done us well so far compared to getting an Amorim. Then again, we now seem to have moved to heavy on the left hand side and starting to get a feeling we’ve gone mad with the signings.

If it is a transition to a new formation it is a MASSIVE gamble for the fee because we don’t know if the future formation will work which will have long lasting impact on the club if it doesn’t.

 

[Fabio]

I think we're just trying to keep the same system, but convert wirtz into what szob was last season.

So I'm bracing myself to call wirtz a shitcunt after a few months

 

[tombrown]

I think he will top the pre-pre-assist stats - his signature move will be to feed it to Salah, who knocks it inside to Bradley who passes it to Slob who wacks it in from 25 yards.

Edit - on reflection he will top the xPPA stats as Salah will, more often than not, mess up his pass to Bradley. But its still a good stat to win

 

[StevieM]

I see him as a square peg in a round hole. He clearly must be talented for the nerds and big wigs to sign off on such a fee. He came with that reputation of being a wonder kid as a 10. That’s the problem, we don’t play with a 10. Szoboszlai isn’t a 10, he’s a Stevie G 8, box to box. The other 2 mids we play with are progressive 6s/8s. We obviously have a 9 with Isak and Ekitike and then a 7 and 11 as wide forwards. Where does this 10 fit?

I can’t believe we are having a massive overhaul of our formation as we were sold on Slot because he would continue in a similar way as Klopp. Which has done us well so far compared to getting an Amorim. Then again, we now seem to have moved to heavy on the left hand side and starting to get a feeling we’ve gone mad with the signings.

If it is a transition to a new formation it is a MASSIVE gamble for the fee because we don’t know if the future formation will work which will have long lasting impact on the club if it doesn’t.

Wasn’t the complaint last season that we needed a proper 10 because Dom wasn’t delivering enough.

For reference that was 13 goals or assists in the league last season.

 

[StevieM]

I think there is a lot of narrative framing going on with Wrtz.
Some of the people who were concerned about the transfer fee are rushing to write him off to prove themselves right on the internet with the knowledge that if he does come good then they can claim that so he should because of the fee we paid for him.
On the other extreme there is a dampening of expectations about what he can achieve and what a success might look like.
All so you can be right on the internet which is seemingly a very important thing.

I think it’s fair to benchmark him against the best creative midfielders in the league to get an idea of what success looks like, certainly n terms of output - that’s neither a low bar or stick with which to best him easily with.

Problem is, knowing the personalities on here, he could score or assist 35 goals and someone would still find fault and he could finish the league on zero goals and assists and someone else would still say he needs more time.

I think he’s a good player that should be afforded some time and ultimately will be a success.

 

[tomasjj]

Is going to be boss!

Momo and Modo have hit the bong, like Cheek and Chong.

 

[MomoWASright]

Wasn’t the complaint last season that we needed a proper 10 because Dom wasn’t delivering enough.

For reference that was 13 goals or assists in the league last season.

My complaint for last season was Salah being shit at the actual football and Trent being a lazy fucking cunt.

 

[Pesam]

Ian Rush didn’t score in his first 7 or 8 games for us. Suarez took a few games to get going.

I’m still on the fence about Wirtz and I think we might need to jiggle with the system a bit to get the best out of him but I’ve seen enough in the second half against Arsenal and the game against Burnley to suggest he needs to be given more time to adjust to the pace of the game.

 

[MomoWASright]

Suarez looked boss but unfit on his debut.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Suarez looked boss but unfit on his debut.

How did Macca do on the MOTM votes in his first 4 league matches? I'm curious, I can't remember how he started with us.

 

[MomoWASright]

How did Macca do on the MOTM votes in his first 4 league matches? I'm curious, I can't remember how he started with us.

I didn’t run it that season.

 

[MomoWASright]

How did Macca do on the MOTM votes in his first 4 league matches? I'm curious, I can't remember how he started with us.

Summer signing Alexis Mac Allister was sent off in his first home match for Liverpool but the Reds still overpowered Bournemouth in a thrilling Premier League game at Anfield.


It was overturned when we appealed.

 

[The Nomad]

He's going to score or assist tomorrow. I can feel it in my bones.

 

[Fabio]

He's going to score or assist tomorrow. I can feel it in my bones.

Probably. European football and will get a bit more space.

Just hope he kicks on

 

[Beamrider]

Probably. European football and will get a bit more space.

Just hope he kicks on

Yeah, I thought that too. And then I remembered, Diego fucking Simeone.

 

[Squiggles]

I think both he and we will benefit if he starts on the left for now. It might not be the role he was promised when we signed him, but the deal is done, and he could find more space to operate and link up more effectively than Gakpo has managed. It’s worth experimenting with, though we’ll probably need to wait until both Jones and Mac are fitter than they are at the moment.

Fark’s post points to the bigger picture: this isn’t just about Wirtz. The balance of Salah and Gakpo on the flanks doesn’t feel quite right in terms of pace, dynamism, and unpredictability. Add in two new number nines, and it becomes even harder for any number ten, who’s expected to knit it all together and bring cohesion to the side. That’s a tough ask given the current setup.

Good results shouldn’t hide the need to keep adjusting until we look more fluid and effective in open play. There’s plenty to work on at the training ground, but even so, we’ve already matched our longest winning run in the league from last season. We’ll only get better from here, and last year didn’t turn out too badly. I still see flaws in both Arsenal and City that have carried over from last season. While they’ll likely finish with higher points totals, I’ve seen nothing yet to suggest either side is capable of building a significant lead over us, flaws and all, and that's even before we throw Isak into the mix.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I thought he looked quite good against Burnley. The incision and angles of his passing were clever and offered something that was missing last season.

The weight on the ball and the lack of smart runs from his teammates means there's no end product there, but you can see how sharp his mind is.

He's a bit weak physically but has a good engine and puts the miles in.

There's work for him to do - but just as equally his teammates need to get into the positions he's seeing.

 

[Dreambeliever]

And then people will moan that we won’t but proven quality when those bargain signings go wrong.

Cant win.

Yes, there’s an argument to be had that he’s only proven himself in the German league, but he’s also a regular for the international side.

I also seem to remember the amount of hype and excitement when we were even linked with him. Must be something behind that?

Oh I was excited but it quickly died at asking price. I’ll still be surprised if he doesn’t improve but I’m still not sure he’ll dominate in a way a $116M signing should.

I also think we’ve been shrewd and bought plenty of proven or semi proven talent just at a reasonable fee. This was the outlier and rightly or wrongly he’s gonna get judged for it.

VVD was immense day 1.
Allison was immense day 1.
Salah was immense day 1.
Mane was immense day 1.

Wirtz has been poor by all accounts so far, never mind the hype but yes it’s only been 4 games but I’d have liked to see him do more already to influence games.

 

[Dreambeliever]

We agree on a lot of things 😊

Bingo!

 

[jan]

Yeah, I thought that too. And then I remembered, Diego fucking Simeone.

They have actually played very good football for more than a year now but I expect nothing less than maximum shithousery from them tomorrow and I kind of respect that

 

[Farkmaster]

VVD was immense day 1.
Allison was immense day 1.
Salah was immense day 1.
Mane was immense day 1.

THese players were all right at the height of their powers, between 24 and 28 when signing. All the outfield players had premier league experience.

It is worth remembering wirtz is 22, amongst all the other context. His position is also more difficult to show good things when the team isn't playing well around him, than say a mane, when he came in.

It doesn't need to pay off right now for him to be a good signing overall, but if we want to do something this season it absolutely does, and if our purchases were for the future, our contract extensions most certainly were not.

 

[Modo]

Szobo was immense from day 1.
(He was 22 when we signed him)

 

[FreshRed]

Szobo was immense from day 1.
(He was 22 when we signed him)

And then he faded really badly. Pick your poison.

 

[Modo]

And then he faded really badly. Pick your poison.

He got injured because he was doing all the defending for Trent and Klopp didn't rest him.

 

[FreshRed]

He got injured because he was doing all the defending for Trent and Klopp didn't rest him.

I am a huge Szobo fan, but he has had many spells, where people have questioned his fee.

We, and other teams, have also had many players that took time to settle and that were great. Fabs is a good example. A very big DM fee and took months to settle. Then he was immense.

 

[peekay]

Ian Rush didn’t score in his first 7 or 8 games for us. Suarez took a few games to get going.

I’m still on the fence about Wirtz and I think we might need to jiggle with the system a bit to get the best out of him but I’ve seen enough in the second half against Arsenal and the game against Burnley to suggest he needs to be given more time to adjust to the pace of the game.

Suarez scored on his debut in the PL against Stoke. Did not score against Wigan. Assisted in his third PL game against West Ham. Delivered a monster performance against United in his fourth game.

In between scored or assisted in a couple of FA cup ties. Suarez’s talent was obvious from the get go. We knew we had something special just the way he strutted on to Anfield and nutmegged the first defender.