Florian and the (Slot) Machine

[Farkmaster]

I’ll happily celebrate his success as I’ve never said he won’t be successful, I’m pointing out that his signing at this price is a huge huge gamble, the outcome is irrelevant. The risk is high, nothing chances that.

There's a massive risk buying this player. It isn't worth pointing out.

It may be we decided it's a smaller risk than buying a striker given who is available right now, and the price, but that it accomplishes some of what we need. That's what I'd be thinking.

There's a risk not buying them too.

 

[Buddha]

And fingers crossed he’ll be excellent where he hasn’t played which is in England with the prsssure of being the most expensive English signing ever and the extra pressure of carrying the weight of our history and expectations on his shoulders

He’s carried the weight of being the young golden boy of German football to carry his team to unprecedented heights and an unbeaten league season / title. He knows what it is to be the creative fulcrum of a title winning side / historically significant national side at 20.

It’s what great players do and there’s plenty of positive examples to emulate. You’re acting as if you have some unique insight into the risk of spending big on a player… just because Liverpool fans are naturally excited about signing one of the three best young players in the world, it doesn’t mean that they’re lost in hopeless uncritical optimism.

 

[Dreambeliever]

I think the whole «playing in England» bit is over exaggerated to the extreme.

Plenty of more experienced players have struggled and I don’t think you can over exaggerate the pressure that comes with playing for Liverpool.

 

[keniget]

I think I'd feel more confident if we were signing an amazing LF / RF / ST simply because it'd be easier to see how they fit.

I remember thinking when we signed Nunez - this guy just doesn't fit how we play at all. Him being shit didn't help matters either.

Now Wirtz is obviously different, he is probably talented enough to fit in anywhere we put him. It'll be interesting (hopefully very exciting) to see how it all comes together.

 

[The Nomad]

At this point its probably better to leave Dreamie on his hill.

I get his point to an extent.

With Salah, Gravenberch, Macca etc etc its clear we got a bargain.

With Wirtz the only options are he lives up to his price tag, or he flops.

But fuck it... what a time to be alive when we buy a marquee signing.

Celebrate it rather than thinking he might flop. Every signing comes with that risk, price tag or not.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Yes it does. All transfers are gambles but not all gambles are the same. Odds are calculated based on past performance and Wirtz's past performance is stellar.

Indeed, in Germany for a team who have had very limited success. Doing it week in week out for us with no big winter break where every game matters will be a huge step up, as it would be for anyone and he’s going to be afforded zero settling in time. As pointed out in this thread, fans see him as plug and play and will expect instant success.

 

[Dreambeliever]

What WirtzYou’re a betting man Dreamie - what’s better, a calculated higher risk with a chance of greater rewards, or a lower risk bet that’s likely to drop much lower rewards?

For years we’ve been screaming out about not being able to sign the best talent while watching Chelsea, City and Utd do it.

Ultimately, what does it matter if he doesn’t succeed - City paid £100m for Grealish and won trophies, Chelsea squandered millions on Lukaku… twice… and won trophies… we spent big on Darwin / and we still won the league.

Isn’t this what we wanted?

I don’t we can afford a $115M mistake like the rest can. We are gambling it all on one young very talented player who is unproven in England or at a big club where winning every week is demanded.

I really hope it pays off but ya huge gamble imo.

 

[Farkmaster]

I think I'd feel more confident if we were signing an amazing LF / RF / ST simply because it'd be easier to see how they fit.

I remember thinking when we signed Nunez - this guy just doesn't fit how we play at all. Him being shit didn't help matters either.

Now Wirtz is obviously different, he is probably talented enough to fit in anywhere we put him. It'll be interesting (hopefully very exciting) to see how it all comes together.

We played some great stuff with Nunez up top, and Salah not on the pitch. That Chelsea game springs to mind. That's the future klopp was looking forward to. Obviously nunez couldn't make that shift happen, he wasn't clinical enough, or at all.

It doesn't mean he wasn't the right fit though. I don't know what slot has planned, but if it's a good plan, it can't be more of the same, because our attacking interplay wasn't very impressive this year, and was very one dimensional.

 

[Dreambeliever]

There's a massive risk buying this player. It isn't worth pointing out.

It may be we decided it's a smaller risk than buying a striker given who is available right now, and the price, but that it accomplishes some of what we need. That's what I'd be thinking.

There's a risk not buying them too.

I agree there is risk regardless, I was just hoping it would be 100m max or we’d look elsewhere. Feels like an all the eggs in one basket. A basket who’s already had one season ending cruciate injury and hasn’t been exposed to the insane demands on English football.
One of the reasons I’ll always love Salah. Guy is virtually indestructible.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’m not concerned at all because what is obvious is that we are changing our style of play. Or rather, reverting to the best of what Klopp gave us. Marauding full backs stretching the pitch, a centre forward who is more about link up rather than a robot like Haaland and inside forwards with Gakpo and Salah. We’ve got hard working midfielders with an abundance of talent.

 

[Glen C]

I’ll happily celebrate his success as I’ve never said he won’t be successful, I’m pointing out that his signing at this price is a huge huge gamble, the outcome is irrelevant. The risk is high, nothing chances that.

But every signing is a gamble. There's never a guarantee on any player. But his talent and ceiling makes it a worthwhile gamble and shows the clubs ambition.

 

[Mystic]

The fact you are using Messi in your argument just proves my point even more 🤣🤣🤣🤣

You entire argument comes down to 'English defenders big and scary oh no', as if players playing at the very top level haven't had to deal with such adversity in their time. Your argument, for lack of an appropriately derogatory word, is applicable for a youth coming out of eredivisie on a break out season or two, or a journeyman in ligue 1 who's never excelled outside of it.

It is not applicable to the very best in Europe, playing at the highest club level, and in their national team, winning competitions and personal accolades along the way.

Messi was a 22 year old doing this in 2010, Wirtz is a 22 year old doing it today, this is not to compare them as players, but to highlight the idiocy of your argument, because your logic would apply to Messi too, as seemingly you're far more interested in the league they don't play in, than actually paying any attention to the player in question.

 

[Frogfish]

We played some great stuff with Nunez up top, and Salah not on the pitch. That Chelsea game springs to mind. That's the future klopp was looking forward to. Obviously nunez couldn't make that shift happen, he wasn't clinical enough, or at all.

It doesn't mean he wasn't the right fit though. I don't know what slot has planned, but if it's a good plan, it can't be more of the same, because our attacking interplay wasn't very impressive this year, and was very one dimensional.

I'll add that, as I pointed out at the time, Nunez DID suit our style of play. Over 50% of his goals came from within 6-7m and we had Trent and Robbo putting in oodles of delicious crosses to feed off.

And then Klopp went and played Trent inverted and those crosses were mainly absent as we tried to transition to Klopp 2.0

 

[Buddha]

Indeed, in Germany for a team who have had very limited success. Doing it week in week out for us with no big winter break where every game matters will be a huge step up, as it would be for anyone and he’s going to be afforded zero settling in time. As pointed out in this thread, fans see him as plug and play and will expect instant success.

“…a team who have had very limited success..?”…the fuck are you on about?

He was perhaps the key on pitch element (if not one of the three key elements) to elevating Leverkusen to beat the all dominating Bayern to an undefeated league title, the final of the Europa league (prior to the recent change of Champions League clubs no longer dropping into it) and is an integral player for Germany (a nation of supreme historical football significance) internationally…all whilst coping with being feted as the next big thing at 19-21…and being the creative fulcrum for both sides.

..and whilst doing that he’s personally posted European leagues leading stats on a consistent and improving basis over three seasons…

 

[Farkmaster]

I don’t we can afford a $115M mistake like the rest can. We are gambling it all on one young very talented player who is unproven in England or at a big club where winning every week is demanded.

I really hope it pays off but ya huge gamble imo.

Why do you keep bringing up that he's young? It's less of a risk because he's young, not more.

 

[Whaddapie]

The ignore button is your friend, people... Just saying. 😉

 

[Judge Jules]

True dat, but there's something gruesomely fascinating about the spectacle of Dreamy dying on yet another hill.

 

[Brizzle]

He was their stand out player in a season they almost went invincible, is Dreamy yet again on crack? Or just making a contrarian view so he can drop his usual 'i told you so' messages throughout the season

 

[StevieM]

I don’t we can afford a $115M mistake like the rest can. We are gambling it all on one young very talented player who is unproven in England or at a big club where winning every week is demanded.

I really hope it pays off but ya huge gamble imo.

What’s your alternative then Dreamie - if it so big a risk - which player, not young, at a big club where he’s used to the pressure of having to win every week and proven in England do you suggest we sign?

We could just stick with Harvey Elliot - same age, talented, proven in England and buses to the pressures of playing for Liverpool - save some money?

 

[bluebell]

I don't we see us any parading Wirz until the Adidas deal kicks in, and they're selling the kit. I would imagine they and Adidas want to sell at least few hundred thousand shirts on Wirtz name alone, in the first two weeks. I think they think they can sell this year close to 2.5m shirts. We are currently 3rd behind Madrid and Bayern.

 

[MomoWASright]

That’s over 6 weeks away. It’ll never happen.

 

[Hyena]

Just sign him, and parade him nude. Nothing on but Adidas predators.

Trust me. They'll sell 3 million pairs by the following week. Heck I may even get myself a pair of boots.

 

[Al_Gatto]

There's a massive risk buying this player.....

What's the Wirtz that could happen?

 

[Squiggles]

True dat, but there's something gruesomely fascinating about the spectacle of Dreamy dying on yet another hill.

At the rate he's going, he'll need to move to the Andies before long.

 

[SummerOnions]

As long as he doesn't take our keeper to Kilimanjaros with him

 

[Farkmaster]

What is the hill though? It's an astoundingly self evident mountain.

It IS a risk. It's a fuck ton of money. Every decision we make is a risk. Not doing it is also a risk.

I just want to see some sexy football. We are spending money trying to do that and I can't complain too much about that.

 

[Judge Jules]

The hill is that there's a shedload of evidence for its being a risk worth taking, contrary to the implication in Dreamy's posts on the subject.

 

[SummerOnions]

What is the hill though? It's an astoundingly self evident mountain.

It IS a risk. It's a fuck ton of money. Every decision we make is a risk. Not doing it is also a risk.

I just want to see some sexy football. We are spending money trying to do that and I can't complain too much about that.

I mean for sure it was originally only a molehill

 

[Frogfish]

I don’t we can afford a $115M mistake like the rest can. We are gambling it all on one young very talented player who is unproven in England or at a big club where winning every week is demanded.

I really hope it pays off but ya huge gamble imo.

Start around 6:20

Ogden (a Manc) also has some very nice words to say near the end.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnYZYKfBqN4

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

What’s your alternative then Dreamie - if it so big a risk - which player, not young, at a big club where he’s used to the pressure of having to win every week and proven in England do you suggest we sign?

We could just stick with Harvey Elliot - same age, talented, proven in England and buses to the pressures of playing for Liverpool - save some money?

It is a risk though, spending that much money. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be taking the risk.